Issue with Hubitat & Sengled Bulbs (E11-G14)

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1

So I'm slowly working to get all my devices added to Hubitat. I had WiFi bulbs previously, but with 50+ bulbs all outputting a WiFi signal, it was cluttering the air ways around the house.. So I opted to switch to Zigbee, even though the cost is more, and meant replacing a lot of IoT devices around the home..

I've paired about 24 bulbs so far, about halfway there to all bulbs switched over to Zigbee/Hubitat, however I've ran into a bit of an issue. As I'm waiting for some smart buttons to be delivered, so there is a more "physical" way to turn a light off/on without having to put a tablet/display in, for example, the bathroom, the controls are limited to either to physical switch on the wall, or making sure you take your phone to the bathroom with you.. well being my daughter is lazy, she just keeps hitting the light switch. With the light switch being used, when she goes to turn the light back on, its randomly turning off some of the bulbs in that room. So the bathroom has 6 bulbs in the vanity light figure about the his/her sink/mirror, If the physical switch is flipped up, all 6 bulbs turn on, but then about 5 seconds later one of the bulbs might turn off, or bulb 2 and 4 will turn off, or bulb 2, 3 & 6 will turn off, or so on (its really random.)

Is this an issue with the Hubitat? Is it sending out a "turn off command" when it shouldn't? I'm not really sure where I can look to figure out what's going on.. Seems to only happen if the physical switch is used to cut power to the bulbs, then power is restored it randomly turns off a (or more) after a few seconds..

Also, I'm not sure if it matters, but the Sengled driver marks the bulbs as being model: E11-G13 (Soft White), when they are E11-G14 (Daylight).. doubt that makes any real difference as its just a color difference in the two bulb models.

And Also.. The Dashboard doesn't seem to update correctly once power restores back to the bulbs. Bulbs are on, but the dashboard will still show them off even after a couple min

2

Are the bulbs the only zigbee devices you have atm? If so you need some repeating devices to improve your zigbee mesh? Sengled bulbs are not repeaters

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3

well the bulbs exhibiting the issue are less than 10 feet from the hub.. I would assume I wouldn't need a repeater between the hub and those bulbs.

4

With the bulb on, in the Hubitat device page for the bulb, hit the configure button. That has cleared up some of my issues.

It also worth noting that at the moment, I use the legacy sengled drivers because of the light switch-on behavior.

5

I am 100% Sengled and I use the Advanced Zigbee drivers with good luck. 15 RGBW, 3 BR30 RGBW, 9 Dimmers, and 2 RGBW Candelas. They also provide a power restore last state.

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I thought perhaps the "Power Restore Last State" was what causing it.. but its not actually restoring to last state, as the last state of the bulbs was "ON" when the switch is being pushed to the down position (cuts power.) So they should then restore to the ON state once power is provided again. Also its random which bulb turns off after a few seconds..

7

Why not just replaced the switch that controls those 6 lights around the mirror with a smart switch and change the bulbs to regular LEDs. Take the 6 zigbee bulbs and use them somewhere else. You would still have hub control regardless of the switch position. If your daughter is anything like mine, it's easier to change the switch than retrain her :grin:

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8

Well, for a number of reasons. Mostly being that I already have the bulbs, and already have bulbs for every other lamp in the home as well. Wouldn't have anywhere else to use them. And another reason, probably bigger reason than the first, because there is technically 2 light fixtures above the mirror, one above each of the 2 sinks, and have 3 bulbs in each fixture. They are both wired to the same wall switch. Well technically I guess one is wired to the other, then the one is wired to the switch, I don't know for sure, didn't build the home, but I assume that would be the common way to wire it, also I only see the standard wires in the switch box. Anyways.. I wanted to eventually have it so that only One fixture could be turned on at a time, if so desired. 'Cause frankly having all 6 bulbs on at once, is like staring directly into the sun, it's so bright, even with the 6 bulbs dimmed to 1% its crazy bright (using Daylight bulbs, not soft/warm white)

I'm just trying to find the best option of a switch that will allow me to replace the current switch, but still keep the Smart Bulbs. Someone mentioned inovelli, but honestly I'm not a fan of paddle switches. I like the traditional ones, and that would also mean having to change the switch plate, which the current one is a decorative one that matches the tile & walls of the bathroom. They don't make it in a paddle switch option, only the traditional toggle switch.

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This is the primary difference between the current Sengled driver and the legacy one. Neither have the configuration option for the power on state, but the legacy driver has it configured to be “on” — all of my bulbs are this way. At some point the plan is to correct the driver to provide this functionality in the driver.

Cf: Bulbs no longer turning on correctly when power restored - #12 by mike.maxwell

10

Here are a couple options:

  • Aeotec and a few others make what are called micro switches. They’re a zwave relay which gets wired in behind your light switch, or in the light fixture. The wall switch becomes a trigger for the relay, and you can have whatever switch you’d like.
  • GE has made zwave toggles. They’re fine zwave products but I honestly don’t like the toggle itself anywhere near as much as a regular toggle. The “flipper” is spring loaded and sits in the middle because it’s a momentary switch rather than a full toggle.
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11

I'm not surprised. Building a large stable zigbee network takes some reading and a bit of planning. Generally, you need one zigbee router every 6-8 zigbee end-devices, like Sengled bulbs. I have one medium size zigbee network with 25 devices of which 8 are routers. I have another larger zigbee network with ~75 devices of which 15 are routers. Both my networks are highly responsive, and I have no missed events.

I would strongly recommend you read this portion of the Hubitat documentation:

How to Build a Solid Zigbee Mesh

That's a very bad assumption. The zigbee coordinator (i.e. hub) and the individual routers (what you refer to as a repeater) build routing tables. These tables are not updated instantaneously. And, both the coordinator and routers have a set number of slots in the table that can be filled with device addresses to send zigbee messages to. With 24 end-devices at varying distances from the coordinator, I would anticipate zigbee messages to be be lost on a regular basis.

In my opinion, the approach you have taken will predispose you toward a poor experience with Hubitat or any other zigbee coordinator.

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12

One possible issue is the latency in response with some of the bulbs. Causes events to fire at the wrong time which may impact your rules etc.

Are these bulbs in a group? If not I would create a few groups (maybe in groups of 6 or 8) with "Zigbee Group Messaging" enabled and use those for on/off control and see what happens.

EDIT: I dunno if it's okay to group all those devices at once so thats why I am suggesting several groups. My 8 recessed den lights + 2 table lamp bulbs are sengled and are handled this way and have been working fine.

EDIT2: I am using the "Sengled Element Color Plus" drivers not the legacy ones fwiw.

13

That is ridiculous. I'm not going to, nor should I have to, buy whatever a "Zigbee Router" is for every 6-8 bulbs.. that would be 6 (minimal) needed. The Hubitat is suppose to handle so many Zigbee devices. And the bulbs having the issue where some of the first bulbs pair to the Hubitat. There are 4 in the Master Bedroom, 6 in the Master Bathroom, 6 in the Hall Bathroom, 4 in the Livingroom, 2 in the pantry, 1 on the porch, and 1 here in the office in the desk lamp. The bulbs furthest away, the porch light, was the last to be paired to the Hubitat, and it has no issues. The first to be paired was the one on my desk, to test the hub out with, and then the Master rooms. Bedroom has no issues, but the Master Bathroom does. And the Hall Bathroom does. None of the other bulbs have issues, just the ones in the bathrooms.

The hub is located in the office, is almost perfectly centered in the home. Zigbee is suppose to have 100 meter distance (at optimal performance). The bulbs having the issue are not anywhere close to that distance way from the Hubitat.

14

They are grouped. And function was enabled. I've been randomly disabling features, group messaging, optimization, etc.. one by one to see what might be the issue, but no matter how they are configured, it still resulting the same issue.. Random number of the numbers are turning off. Doesn't matter if I group them in 2s or all 6 in the same group. I've tried unpairing them and then re-adding them as well

15

Correct.

You can do whatever you want. But having a slew of zigbee end-devices without a router for every 6-8 devices is not a recommended setup for ANY zigbee coordinator, not just Hubitat.

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16

Recommend by who. The people trying to sell multiple routers? 6-8 Bulbs is barely enough to fill one room with light.. that's just a outrageous assessment and recommendation. The documentation for Zigbee itself doesn't even recommend that, and states a large number of device that one hub can support..

Or is this a recommendation based on the quality of the Hubitat? Is the Hubitat not capable of providing a reliable system on its own, so it defaults to depending on help from additional devices.

Additionally, the bulbs them self are suppose to repeat the commands, ie a "mesh" type of arrangement.

17

Did you read the link in the Hubitat documentation that I included above?

The 6-8 number comes from the number of slots available within each router (typically). For example, with the firmware they used to ship with, the Ikea Tradfri repeater supported 6 end-devices. Their updated firmware (released last month) supports more (I've seen up to 9).

Some routers (like Innr zigbee plugs) support fewer than 6-8. I've never seen more than 2 devices route through an Innr zigbee plug.

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18

Have you read the article? Router / Repeater are referred to one in the same in the article.. And Since I have 24 devices connected to main voltage .. their should 28 repeaters (or what you refer to as routers) "Zigbee repeaters may be any device that will always powered by mains voltages"

19

Unfortunately, Sengled bulbs are not repeaters. Please read the documentation that came along with your bulbs, or the Support FAQ from Sengled's website, linked below:

Edit - so unlike other powered zigbee devices, Sengled bulbs are end-devices. Ergo, a stable network of these bulbs will need routers.

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20

Well that was not the information the Sengled support gave me.

And doesn't explain why this issue ONLY happens when the power switch is used.. There are ZERO issues when the bulbs are turned on/off by the dashboard.