Is this possible via Rule Machine? HSM/Konnected/Vista 20p


#1

After lots of tweaking I finally got my Konnected interface board working 90% as desired with my vista 20p panel and Hubitat. I'm able to arm and disarm the system via HSM using either the Hubitat dashboard or sharptools. I also was able to program 2 outputs on my Vista 20p to reflect either armed home or armed away. These statuses are then reflected on Konnected contact sensors that show open for disarmed and closed for armed status on both dashboards.

All this works great but what I'm trying to do is have the HSM status accurately reflect the condition of these sensors. If I do all arming and disarming from the dashboards there is no issue. However I still have a single alarm keypad that's sometimes used for arming and disarming. Doing this changes the state of the contact sensors but not the status of HSM. This means I need to disarm/arm both via HSM of both via the old alarm keypad to have the HSM status match the actual alarm status.

I hope that makes sense.


#2

RM, first trigger, the trigger is the vista status contact in konnected is closed, the action is change HSM to armed away(or home). Second trigger, the trigger is the vista status contact in konnected is open, the action is change HSM to disarmed.


#3

Thank you I thought about something like that and I’ll test it when I’m back home but I think it would cause problems. If the the alarm is currently unarmed hitting armed on HSM will arm the system via the single input trigger in zone 7 in the vista panel. To unarm the system via HSM I hit the unarm button in HSM but in actuality it’s just the same thing as hitting arm again would do; send another trigger to zone 7.

Therefore if I create a rule to arm the system if the contact sensor is open won’t it send a trigger to the switch to arm and vice versus if the contact sensor is closed won’t it send a trigger to unarm the system? I imagine a constant arm/unarm loop happening.

Unless I’m wrong I just need the contact sensor to reflect a status change in HSM not actually activate a switch


#4

Okay, let me see if I understand you...you're trying to use the status of the contact sensor to arm/disarm HSM? You have one contact sensor reading closed for armed away and another reading closed for armed home and both are open when the system is disarmed? It's not possible for both to be closed, correct?


#5

It’s pretty convoluted but yes that’s correct. The issue is sometimes I use a alarm keypad to arm/disarm the system and sometimes a dashboard.

I’ll try to describe the scenarios again.
Two main use cases

  1. I use tablet in master bedroom to arm home. Vista panel arms/HSM arms all is good. I use Vista keypad by garage door to disarm before I leave house. Vista panel disarms/HSM stays armed. When I open door actual alarm doesn’t goe off but HSM sends alerts because it doesn’t know the panel was disarmed.

  2. Unarmed state and I use Vista keypad by garage door to arm away before I leave. HSM doesn’t know the system is armed so while the actual alarm would sound I wouldn’t get alerts.

The simplest way to describe this is it possible to have the status of HSM reflect the status of the contact sensors without HSM actually triggering an action?


#6

What do you mean by

Do you mean be armed away if one is closed and armed home if the other is closed and disarmed if both are open? Yes, that is possible.

But first, I would like to point out that you are using the Konnected board well beyond what it was intended to do. It was intended to replace the controller of your wired alarm system giving HSM access to the SENSORS of your old wired alarm system. Not be an interface module for your wired alarm system. It was never intended to perform the functionality that you point out. It might be possible to get the functionality you want but that will depend greatly on what is available in your alarm system.

First of all, you want to remove the two contact sensors that you have to read armed away and armed home from HSM. that isn't going to help you actually monitor anything. They are only going to control the status of HSM. What you are going to want to do is figure out how to detect when your alarm has actually alarmed. That way you can read that output into another connected contact sensor. Maybe the siren. Then you would put that contact sensor into HSM's monitoring rules and HSM would know when your alarm is going off.

Then you would write rules in RM to control HSM based on the contact sensor for control. You would not put these into HSM's monitoring rules.

I will also point out, that you will not be able to use any of your wired alarm system sensors for anything in HE if you do it this way. If you use Konnected the way it was designed, it opens up all of your sensor to all your automations in HE. This would not allow you to do that.

My question is, how are you arming the alarm system if HSM arms? I don't see how you're going to do that with this setup.


#7

I’m using the Konnected interface board not the alarm board. Unless I’m mistaken it was designed to do what I’m using it for.

I can arm the system with either a dashboard button, which is a momentary which then sends an output trigger to zone 7 on my vista panel. Alternatively I can arm the system with the vista keypad


#8

Actually, it doesn't. From the interface board's page:

The Alarm Panel Interface does NOT have direct communication with the traditional panel and cannot natively monitor the armed/disarmed state of the alarm system.

So, if you are finding some other way of doing that, great. But you cannot also use those sensor within HSM. It can either be used as a control or a sensor, you can't do both.

But how are you controlling the state of the alarm panel from HE? Maybe post to the connected forum...they might have better answers.
https://help.konnected.io/support/discussions


#9

Ryan, Can I jump in real quick. I order a Konnected interface module and will arrive tomorrow. My understanding is Hubitat will be able to see my wired sensors and allow me to utilize them in HSM. So if a wired sensor is tripped (opened) it can trigger an HSM alert and turn on my present Dome siren I have connected to Hubitat. I would also be able to see if a wired sensor is open or closed just like my wireless sensors that are presently connected to Hubitat. Am I also correct that basically the Hubitat and my Vista systems both work independently OTHER THAN utilizing the same wired sensors? So I can arm HSM and it doesn't affect the Vista panel at all other than to utilize the wired sensors . Nothing is triggered on my old Vista keypad? Also Vice a versa , If I arm my Vista panel with the original Vista keypad, it will not interfere with HSM/Hubitat. In affect two separate systems just sharing the same wired sensors. I just want to make sure, because the Konnected interface panel is coming tomorrow. Also my present Vista panel will not allow me to utilize Konnected thru a relay to arm or disarm my old panel, So I've resigned myself to the fact that I have basically two alarm systems. Thanks for any input


#10

Yes, that is how i understand the interface panel is supposed to work. Why you would want two alarm system, I really don't know. It makes sense to use the sensors from you wired system for other things than security but if your wired system is remote monitored, why would you want to use HSM?


#11

My present Vista 20se is a barebones basic system the builder installed years ago. It can't tell me, remotely, if the alarm was tripped or for that matter, wont allow me to turn it off or on remotely. So basically Hubitat, since it can utilize my wired sensors, will now be my primary alarm system allowing me remote access and also send me alerts something my Vista panel couldn't do. I would have had to replace my old vista panel,and rewire it and still probably need to pay a monitoring service to let me know if the alarm was tripped. Hubitat has worked out great, not only as an alarm replacement, but loving everything it can be programmed to do. Greatly appreciate your input!


#12

I'm sorry, I still don't understand. So, if your wired alarm system is remote monitored, how does it not tell you if it's tripped? The monitoring company must notify you. And if it is not monitored, then why use it at all? Why not just rip it out and use HSM exclusively? Sorry, I'm just not seeing the benefit of two independent alarm controller working off the same sensors.


#13

Exactly, the old system is not monitored, so I'm using Hubitat exclusively and using the old Vista just for its wired sensors through Konnected, not using it to arm or disarm the old alarm


#14

Okay, I'm confused then. So, why are you using the Interface Board instead of the traditional Konnected Alarm panel board to replace your other control panel?


#15

GOOD question. Just thought it was easier to install the konnected interface AND have a fall back, with my old alarm. if I had issues with Hubitat . Your right though, probably could have just went with the original Konnected panel


#16

Lots to digest here and what I’m trying to do works 90% as attended. You most definitely can arm the traditional alarm panel through the konnected interface board. That board has an output which can be configured as a momentary switch. Zone 7 on the Vista board can be configured as a software switch to arm the system. I have that momentary switch setup in HSM and if I press that switch konnected sends that triggered output to my vista panel which arms the alarm. The reverse process works as well to disarm the system.

I’m pretty sure the reason Konnected put that note you mentioned is you can’t do it without knowledge and the ability on how to program a Vista/DSC panel. If you have an old Brinks/ADT system without a programmer code you’re SOL there is no way to get into them.

The vista board also has configurable outputs to send signals to the konnected board. These connect to zones on Konnected which are setup as contact sensors which can monitor the arm/disarm status of the system.

Like I mentioned it works 90% as intended and the last issue might be a limitation of Hubitat as people on the Konnected forum have it working with other hubs.

The reason for keeping both and the reason Konnected created the interface board in the first place was so people didn’t have to rely on a hub, software and the WiFi of the konnected to arm/disarm a system as well as not pay ADT, Brinks, etc $50 a month


#17

If anyone is looking for an alternative I use the Alarmdecoder AD2Pi with my Vista 20p panel and what is good about this is it interfaces directly with the panel just through 4 wires connected in between the keypad and the alarm board. There is no need to touch any of the zones and the system will still work independently of the AD2Pi or HE.

I can arm from either the vista 20p keypad or from HE/HSM. All the zones can be used to trigger any automation or used in rule machine and each zone is seen as a device in HE. My smoke detectors are actually recognized in HSM properly also.

With the AD2Pi you also get a virtual keypad and I can directly program my Vista 20p keypad from a web interface.

The driver/app in HE works for the most part, but has not been fully ported. It was originally developed for smartthings, but the same dev is working on fully porting over the app/driver to HE.

I have been using this for at least 6 months and it has not given me any issues.


#18

NICE! I didn't think anything would work with my old Vista 20 SE panel and the reason I went with Konnected, but according to the Alarmdecoder site it does. Just got the Konnected Interface module TODAY and installed without a glitch. Good to know there are alternatives though! Thanks for the info. I'm sure others will be interested especially since only 4 wires needed to connect to keypad terminals


#19

I too ran across Alarmdecoder after I already ordered my Konnected, too bad as I have a 3 month old RPI sitting around. I have a board coming tomorrow which will allow me to create two separate momentary switches; one to arm home and one to arm away. At that point I"ll be 95% happy and until I can find a work around just have to always disarm from the same interface I disarmed from.