Am I right in thinking that only the C8 will be Matter compatible?
I believe it will be the first to be compatible followed by the c7. It's easier on the c8 because of the dual zigbee radios vs the single on the c7, but in the end they will both be matter compatible.
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The C-8 has a single zigbee radio. The difference is that the C-8's radio can either be run in zigbee mode, or be used as a Thread radio. The C-7's radio is strictly zigbee.
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I thought there were dual radios...my bad.
There is no reason to believe that at this point, as the C5/C7/C8 all share the same CPU/RAM specifications. Thus adding pure Matter Controller support should be feasible on all of these platforms. If Hubitat adds Matter support, then any Matter-based LAN/WiFi devices will be able to be controlled directly from Hubitat. Hubitat should also be able to connect to a Matter Thread Border Router device to access Thread devices. Also, once Aqara and Hue add Matter bridge support to their Zigbee based hubs, Hubitat should be able to connect to those devices via Matter.
Now, "Matter over Thread" is somewhat of a different subject. Thread requires a 802.15.4 hardware radio. We'll have to wait and see whether Hubitat attempts to pursue Thread on the C8, as it is the only model whose 802.15.4 radio is capable of running Thread.
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As Matter is a network protocol that runs on IP networks, not a zigbee one, why would this be a factor? What about zigbee make adding a network protocol easier? I’m confused here.
But Thread is a WiFi protocol and Matter is an IP protocol independent of WiFi. I still don’t see the relationship here for Matter.
Thread uses a zigbee radio.... That said, things have changed since I made this post. I made the original post during when there was some confusion
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Thread isn't WiFi (802.11) even though it uses 2.4GHz. It is 6LoWPAN which in turn is 802.15.4. Just like Zigbee is not WiFi even though it is 2.4GHz... It is also 802.15.4.
Your question is like asking why do I need a Zigbee radio when I have a wifi radio already? Same reason - 802.11 vs 802.15.4 protocols.
Or maybe another analogy, since I'm on an analogy kick - It is like asking why when I speak English I can't understand German, even though they use the same sound wave frequencies.
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Really? Ok. Everything I read about it in the past referred to it as a wireless spec that uses your WiFi radio, not just that they share the same frequency band. But still, Thread and Matter are independent of each other. And the topic is on Matter. I don’t understand why Matter would be any easier or harder to implement across the different hubs. Technically speaking even the C3 I have relegated to a test bed should be able to support Matter, as should any computer with the right software.
Apparently it has to do with certain libraries being available on the c8 but not on the c5/c7. Matter code relies heavily on on some JNI - C Libraries which are only available on the c8
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The current Matter implementation is for the version of Java on the C-8, which is newer than the version on older hubs.
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So will Matter be available on the C7? If yes, how is it being implemented?
It may be a while. Matter code relies heavily on on some JNI - C Libraries which are only available on the c8 and not the c5/c7...
Define "be available"...
No I'm not trying to be a smart ■■■ this time. Support means lots of different things. It could still be a matter controller without having thread support.
In that case it would never be a thread border router though, nor could you pair thread devices directly to it (obviously).
It could also still be a matter bridge without thread support, allowing one to share z devices with the matter fabric.
All that said, I have no idea what the future plans for the C7 are going to be. If any.
The only thing I do know is that it takes a lot of coding work to get it going on the C7 (even after they have it working on the C8), and only Hubitat can decide if it's worth the effort or not.
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I think in early days the radio chip used in the C8 was touted as being able to run ZigBee/Matter and Thread pseudo ‘simultaneously’ in a time sliced implementation. Several controller manufactures jumped on this in their upgraded sales pitch but the practical implementation difficulties have meant they have given up on this as a workable solution.
IF (big if) C7’s and lower were to be included as Matter capable then they would have the appropriate JNI C libraries updated I assume.
They (C7 and below) can’t support Thread due to capable hardware not being included but a Thread Border Router included in current products from Apple, Google , Amazon and others can handle this fairly seamlessly so that’s not a concern. These TBR’s are leveraged by the C8 too.
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…Just as a thought in a mixed C8 and previous multi hub environment then you can use Hub Mesh to control Matter devices on your C8 from the C7 and below.
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Since I have the c8 for zigbee, I'm ok dedicating my c7 radio for non-zigbee usage.
I'm pretty sure it would have to be the other way around. IF, and this is a big if, Hubitat was to implement thread, it could only run on the C8. Most likely, Hubitat would move to an either/or on the C8. Either run Thread or Zigbee using the C8 radio; not both. If that option was allowed, you could run Thread on the C8 and your Zigbee stuff on the C7.
Based on previous comments, my guess is that the C8 will become a Matter controller but not implement Thread on its radio. Instead, if someone wanted to bring in a Matter via Thread device, they would need to connect it via a different Thread Boarder Router and use the Matter pairing code generated by that boarder router to use it in Hubitat.
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I already have a 2nd C7 with the radios turned off. I was hoping matter support would enable connecting over my local LAN to my thread border routers (HomePods).
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