So it has been over year since all the home automation influencers on youtube pumped up the idea that matter and thread would solve all the integration issues between vendors in this space. I am all about embracing new technology and simplifying integration of vendors. However, over the past year it has been disappointment one after another on this technology and I believe at this point the underpinning requirement for IPv6 will be the biggest downfall for deployment and acceptance in complex home networks.
There is an excellent 3 part paper authored by Derek Seaman on this blog at the link below.
"Having a rock solid Matter experience is not always easy. Sometimes the cause of your woes is your networking gear, its firmware, or fiddling with IGMP/MLD snooping. And worst case, you may need new switches that properly support IPv6 multicast if what you have now is fundamentally broken. "
I can echo the many issues identified in his blog with my complex multivendor environment of VMs (on QNAP), multiple VLANs, mix of WiFi networks (on Ubiquiti), tight firewall rules (on pfSense), etc. At this point, it seems I need to set up a 'clean' stand alone parallel physical network just to get Matter and Thread working. On top of all that I need to buy a Google Nest, Amazon Echo or a Apple Hub to add to the mix. This is not the simple integration plan that we have been sold.
I post this not looking for answers but to raise awareness of the complexity that is happening at the network level for the deployment of this new integration technology.
One counter though is that this is a consumer targeted protocol, and 99.99% of consumers do not have complex networks with vlans, tight device to device restrictions, intra-vlan/subnet routing, etc.
So the problems some of the more techy experience simply will not be "a thing" for an average household.
As far as having to buy a device... Well, yeah, you need a Matter controller to connect devices to - same as any other technology.
Saying you "have to" buy a controller to use a Matter device is like saying you "have to" buy a wifi AP to use a wifi IoT device....
EDIT: Disclaimer - I'm not expressly defending Matter. I think Matter - even in v1.2 - has a lot of issues and shortcomings. I do think it will get better, but it is not the Holy Grail as-is today.
On the other hand, I have bottom of the barrel stuff, TP Link. I use the $10 switches, which seem to work fine so far. I do have a bit higher end (for TP Link) AX11000 router, but it still isn't a prosumer or even premium brand. Again, it works OK so far with Matter. No weird settings, or workarounds needed.
I think people often way overdo things with these multi-satellite mesh network systems in a 2000 sq foot house. The added complexity vs just using Wifi, or just having a couple simple unmanaged switches in key locations is a bit over the top. I feel like these complex systems and topologies create more issues than they solve.
I've got Ubiquiti router, Unifi APs, NAS's, Pi's, VLANs, VPN, etc. I have my hubs/IoT devices (HE, Hue, Lutron, Zigbee/Z-Wave/Matter devices and Pi's running IoT stuff, GH, Apple Homepod mini, and Alexa) running on my IoT VLAN, and all works well w/out issue. IoT network is blocked from initiating connections to the rest of my network(s) but can call their web-based motherships as required. Using Matter devices in my setup has not raised any issues for me.
^^^ This...we geeks spend way too much time together and start to think we're normal. We're not. 99% of my friends/family members have basic networks.
Techie types w/complex networks are just not the market segment that Matter was conceived to service. In fact they (Matter manuf's) could probably care less, IMHO...geeks will figure it out. Everyone else will mostly just be fine by default.
I dunno, I've been using IPv6 at home for nearly 20 years now. Until recently, I used relatively cheap budget equipment with no issues. Now I use Ubiquiti and pfSense and still never had any issues with IPv6.
One upon a time I got a degree in networking, I could configure commercial grade gear via a terminal port. I have one single ASUS mid-grade AX router. Covers the whole house, works great. One segregated subnet for Guest Wifi, all personal devices are on a single /24 subnet, no vlans. I know you don't need it for Matter, but I have been running IPv6 at home for a few years now. Never really have any issues, or have to touch anything besides router security updates.
Point being, I agree. Just because you could, doesn't mean you should (or need to).
If I had the need for more coverage, I would probably just get one of those consumer mesh systems, or expand the ASUS with AiMesh on a second router.
I guess I was hoping the Hubitat Elevation Model C-8 that I own was going to be that controller and I would not have to add in an Apple, Amazon or Google product to my home automation mix to gain access matter devices.
"To use Matter devices on the C-8 hub, they must first be commissioned on another system. Matter commissioning is easy to do with Apple Home, Google Home or Amazon Echo.,"
The very next sentence of the post you quoted states that “Hubitat Elevation does not currently support commissioning…”
I don’t have any inside knowledge one way or another, but to me that suggests in the future the hub could support commissioning?
Also AFAIK that’s unrelated to concerns re: IPv6 networking. And I agree with others that the overwhelming majority of consumers don’t need to worry about how matter devices will interact with a complex setup of multiple VMs, VLANs, WiFi networks and tight firewall rules because they don’t have any of the above at home.
Yes it has been suggested that it may be able to do that in the future, no promises or timeline as usual. My theory was that the approach taken was the quickest way to bring Matter support to the hub, by not worrying about having to commission the devices. It could be built upon from here if they chose to. Most people buying Matter devices probably already have a commissioning device in the home.
With Matter support quickly being added to many new Wifi devices, there will probably be an influx of new HE users who have a handful of Matter enabled devices already working on another platform. They may be unsatisfied with the level of automations and control, looking for more options. They will (hopefully) be able to easily bring those devices over to Hubitat and then expand to the other Z radios if needed.
This could be a huge new entry point for new users, vs what we currently see on here where people have a mish-mash of oddball Wifi devices that lack local control, trying to bring it all into HE and then getting frustrated from the lack of support.
Currently running a Watchguard t35 for firewall, Unifi AP-AC Pros for wifi backhauled to cisco catalyst 3700 switches. My rack has 8 blades on it with at last count 22 VM's in a combination of Windows bare metal Hyper v's and VMware running a couple different flavors of linux. (A lot of it s for my job but several blades and vm's run my home) along with a large QNAP NAS and a lot of iot devices. I have a couple of vlan's mainly for using site to site vpn's but my personal network is pretty flat, because face it. Most people don't need vlan's. Matter and my iot devices work fine. As @JasonJoel put it, 99% of people using matter aren't going to have to worry too much, and honestly if someone like the 1% that have problems because of an overly complilcated network that at home is largely unnecessary, well they have no business fooling with stuff they only pretend to understand. The ones that do understand how it all works won't have much of a problem because they know how to adjust things for it and take care of an issue in a few moments. Flat networks like the average consumer has won't be very much of an issue and I think as the kinks get worked out in future matter versions, it will be less and less of an issue overall even for complicated networks. As to ipv6 being a downfall, I really don't see that. You don't even need to run ipv6 to have the fabric create it's own ipv6 network. It's pretty transparent to the average user..... Just sayin...
It will be able to be a commissioner in an upcoming version of the phone app. Matter needs to use bluetooth to commission but the current phone app can't access the bluetooth radio in your phone. Once that happens, hubitat will be a commissioner.
The problem is not plain IPv6, but it's mostly due to IPv6 multicast. Some network devices have broken firmware or features when it comes to dealing with IPv6 multicast. Some switches/routers have things like "mDNS reflectors" or "mDNS bridging" that in 99% of cases is just broken.
And as mention in my blog post, my $800 QNAP 10G PoE switch just futzed with IPv6 multicast that no matter what I did (IGMP snooping on/off, etc.) IPv6 mDNS was fundamentally broken on my home network. Once I dumped that switch in the trash bin and got TP-Link Jetstream, and then Netgear Pro-AV switches, mDNS problems magically went away.
Jen, over at the Verge, had a huge article yesterday about all her problems. I was Tweeting with her, and personally I think she has a broken home network/gear to cause all her issues. She was also a fan of my 3 part post!
As said though, 99% of home users have a flat network and those with more complicated networks should understand how to resolve their issues. I mean I'm not saying there aren't some valid points but it's certainly not going to be classicismic failure for the masses.
My home network is flat and Matter was garbage until I replaced the QNAP switch. One of the Home Assistant matter developers had to ditch his Ubiquiti dream machine as it also had IPv6 multicast problems. He also went to TP-Link jetstream and it's been rock solid ever since.
Some consumer gear has settings which are enabled by default, which throw wrenches in Matter. So it's not just "complex" networks causing headaches.
You are still completely bypassing the point. Almost zero CONSUMERS will have a $800 QNAP 10Gb switch that is targetted at SMB/business, nor Ubiquiti equipment, nor TPlink Jetstream switches.
Almost all cases of people having these issues with Matter are using business gear with a home protocol and/or have created very complex network setups in which they now need to manage multicast or mdns routing.
I'm not saying that a complex/detailed network is a bad thing, but it is very much not the target audience for Matter and simply is not going to be a problem 99%+ of consumers have. So does that make Matter bad - well that's subjective and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I would argue "no".
Another example - LOTS of business oriented gear has done very little testing with mDNS at all, for instance. But almost all consumer switches and network gear is to ensure bonjour works.
I'll have to see what I can do to test on my network. I don't know if I have any straightforward way to test IPv6 multicast. At this point, I have a pretty complicated network with many VLANs for various purposes, but I have experienced no issues to this day that I am aware of.
99% of my friends/family members have basic networks.
