I'm in home wiring Sheol

Hades, Stovokor, take your pick. If you get the references you have some at least reasonable Theological and pop culture education.

The bad place...


Even though as far as I can tell, NEC calls for 14/2 Romex for a 15 amp light circuit. For some reason my county, when my home was built, required 12/2 for a standard light circuit, 12/3 for a 3 way with a traveller etc...

Now my guest bathroom box I went to do the install of the Zen22 for the light fixture. It appears that for some reason, for this 2 gang box, I have 4 lines run into it.

So there are already 4 grounds, and 4 neutrals tied into the wire nuts and bundled, and no room to add jumpers to branch these off...

Simply put, the wire nuts are just not big enough to fit 5 12ga wires into...

I am unsure of how to reconfigure the wiring to be safe, and in code, so...

Added to list of work to be done by my electrician...

Put in a deep box.

You can get larger wire nuts.

These can have 3 - 6 12-gauge wires in each wire nut. also, as @672southmain, a deep box might help if you need more box space.

My personal favorite (when there is room):

They come in many different # of connectors. If ordering on Amazon, beware cheap knockoffs that may/may not be UL rated and may/may not actually meet the 400v+ electrical spec... I stick with the authentic Wago ones, myself.

I've NEVER had a wire come out of one of these accidentally (unlike wire nuts).


I would:

Solder the 5 safety grounds together (bare copper). I use a wide gas pliers to twist them together. Now without needing a nut on them you might be able to get larger wire nuts (meant for 5 x #12). I think they are blue or gray but not sure.

Another idea is: (if legal in your county) run #14 from the 5 wire connections to the receptacles/switches. I'm assuming currently they are #12.

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Is there a copper mine in your county? :laughing:

With all the money you’re going to end up handing over to an electrician, I’d tie the hot and load together, put in Smart bulbs, a Lutron Smart Bridge Pro, and drop Picos over the wall box. You save money over hiring the electrician, and you’ll then be free to configure the Picos however you want, and put them wherever you want. Picos are around $15 for the remote, $25 for a kit with the wall plate

Agree. I use the 221s which are smaller, thinner and transparent so it's easy to spot when the wire is fully seated.
I like that they allow you to do incremental wiring: first I wire the main lines, and only at the end when the box is all tidied up, I connect the switch with the jumpers.
They have been a lifesaver when installing deep caseta switches and dimmers.


Agree with this. They are significantly smaller than the 222 series. And they're good for mixing wire sizes and stranded with solid.

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No copper mine, just funny codes. Stupid if you ask me.

I am not sure why there are so many lines running to this one double gang box, but there it is...

I was trying to replace smart bulbs with a smart switch. The bulbs already exist...

Nice. I think I'll pick up some of those!

Is there a reputable place to buy these? At some point I picked up a bunch from Amazon and as far as I can tell they aren't knockoffs (not sure how I'd know). But I'm always wary of buying these sorts of name brand things off Amazon as you never know what they might ship you.

If you look at Amazon they sell versions not made by Waco. These are CE approved but not UL approved. There is a big difference. I'm a little old school when it comes to electrical connections, however if I were to try the level locks they would have to be UL approved. CE isn't even close to UL.

You can buy the 3-conductor and 5-conductor sold directly by Amazon, but in jugs of >300.

The link I posted is an assorted case of 2, 3 and 5-conductor. They are sold by Peppy Products LLC. They are US based, they buy them in bulk from Germany and repackage them. The ones I got are UL certified and look and feel like the real thing.


If wires come out of a wire nut, it's because they were not properly twisted before placing the wire nut, that is often the problem with amateurs that think they know what they are doing! The wire nut is only a physical device that compresses the already twisted wires and insulates the exposed wire, it's not a twisting device (use flat head plyers for that).

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True. But still not a big fan of wire-nuts. They are a "better not change your mind" kind of thing. With WAGOs I can rewire a box 100 times and all the terminals still look like new.

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Yes, true. It is especially troublesome if you are trying to put stranded wire and solid wire in the same wire nut without soldering... Not that I would ever do that of course. :wink:


Or, like in my old house, connecting aluminum to copper... :wink:


That's why I use WAGOs...

I think I'll like the smaller 221s... I've just been living with/using the larger 222s as that is what I had on hand.