Hubitat Z-Wave Plus Certification ID

💬 Lounge Debate Chamber
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Right now distance as when I put the hub next to it, they all started working great all day.

The next test was to remove the non NWP devices from the loop because having them affects the bandwidth (one of the things I read in this thread). So tomorrow I'll pu the hub back and see if I still have good results. If I do I would say its the non ZWP and possibly the bandwidth with the secure devices. These are the only two devices I have setup as secure.

If it doesn't work when I move it back, I'll just leave it in the laundry next to the locks as everything works great from there. I just like to centralize my hubs though and avoid having them spread around the house.

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And these are the Yale YRD256 Z-Wave Plus, same as the one I have?

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Yup yup. The same ones.

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Weird

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I know. It doesn't make sense. But there are so many factors that something that works for one person may not work for another. So I like to dig in and do tests based on things I read in the forums. There is a lot of good information scattered throughout these threads.

They did however work fine for a while, just started giving me issues at one point. I've even written my own drivers for them so I could watch the flow of data.

We will see how things go when I move them back. I'm just thinking they don't like repeaters.

I have the driver setup to send the command up to 15 times every 10s if it doesn't get it. Sometimes it finally gets the command after 10 times or more. Its like the commands are just not making it there all the time.

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Even on reddit you see people reporting issues... :frowning:

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This is my theory.
I have two Schlage locks with very different firmwares. One is z-wave and the newer z-wave plus.
The oldest one had issues with Wink 2 and finally settled down and was reliable. The newer one lost a ton of functionality on the Wink2, seems like they didn't actually support it (edit: thanks @aaiyar for confirming) . With HE it took about 2 weeks of some trial and error and now things are working super reliable.

I did two specific things to get them into the same reliable state as I had with Wink;

  1. Got aetech repeaters which others have pointed out do a good job repeating secure z-wave messages (This I knew was important as the onboard z-wave antenaa for HE isn't as strong as the Wink2 hardward according to people on this forum)>

  2. I gave them time. It took about 3-4 days for my mesh to settle, and since they they have been running fantastic with great battery life.

Results seem to vary, and all these opinions of what is right and wrong are just that, opinions.
The only facts that seems legitimate here are;

  1. The convo about certification
  2. Schlange locks have issues on a lot of platforms
  3. Many of the issues are mesh related
  4. Wink (and maybe ST?) seem to have done a ton of work to customize against some of the old schlange fireware.
  5. People are not very nice, which sucks because this is a community.
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WInk and Vera for sure. Not sure about ST. Also, Wink did this for the original BE469; the zwave+ BE469ZP is not fully supported under Wink.

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Since Locks, while battery powered, are two way devices they do report neighbors. Messages to update Neighbors will be queued and when the Lock wakes it will get the queued commands. Here are the logs from my BE469 using external tools.

2020-03-02 16:11:21.018 Detail, Node035, Queuing (Command) Get Routing Info (Node=35): 0x01, 0x07, 0x00, 0x80, 0x23, 0x00, 0x00, 0x03, 0x58
2020-03-02 16:11:21.018 Detail, Node035, Queuing (Query) Query Stage Complete (Neighbors)
2020-03-02 16:11:21.018 Info, Node035, Sending (Command) message (Callback ID=0x00, Expected Reply=0x80) - Get Routing Info (Node=35): 0x01, 0x07, 0x00, 0x80, 0x23, 0x00, 0x00, 0x03, 0x58
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Detail, Node035,   Received: 0x01, 0x20, 0x01, 0x80, 0x25, 0x85, 0xc8, 0x00, 0x02, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x34
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Info, Node035, Received reply to FUNC_ID_ZW_GET_ROUTING_INFO
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Info, Node035,     Neighbors of this node are:
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Info, Node035,     Node 1
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Info, Node035,     Node 3
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Info, Node035,     Node 6
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Info, Node035,     Node 9
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Info, Node035,     Node 11
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Info, Node035,     Node 16
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Info, Node035,     Node 20
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Info, Node035,     Node 23
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Info, Node035,     Node 24
2020-03-02 16:11:21.057 Info, Node035,     Node 34

If you really want to understand your network and perhaps try and figure out what and where may be causing problems, you should get an extra Zwave stick and one of the software tools.

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what tool are you using, im looking to look at what is going on on my mesh, have the stick but unsure how to view the transmisions?

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@mark.cockcroft I am using OpenZwave Control Panel. It runs on Linux, but that can be a Raspberry Pi, a Mac (not Linux I know) or a virtual machine. I use OZWCP from a virtual machine and you could use something like VirtualBox to install it right inside Windows. Linux takes about 10 minutes to install and for the most part you just need to accept the defaults and hit enter.
I haven't tried it but probably should. Windows 10 fully supports a Linux subsystem with Ubuntu the default I think. You can get other Linux distributions in the Windows store.

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I have one and have done this, but thanks for the advice.

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If you have this kind of information, post it rather than just ranting about things. Contribute to solving the issue you are having. Wild speculation either direction is valueless. Please help everyone by adding your logs etc.

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Repeating for the 17th time. THE MESH IS IRRELEVANT THE ISSUE SHOWS UP BEING THE ONLY DEVICE ON THE HUB.

You guys are seriously like robots, repeating the same nonsense!

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You don't want help then and aren't willing to contribute to finding the issue?

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Going down irrelevant rabbit holes is the exact opposite of helping.

Fix the basics of zwave operation first. The hub is supposed to control end devices, and it does not adequately do so with secure devices.

Having repeaters is NOT REQUIRED to have a functioning lock.

It's these "basics" that GET CERTIFIED BY ZWAVE that ensures basic functionality........and surprise surprise Hubitat is NOT CERTIFIED........so please stop with the "help fix" because you are using the diagnostics for what a "certified" device should do, which we are not using. Which explains why Mike earlier stated "doubtful" Schlage would be willing to assist......I was shocked to see Hubitat hasn't even attempted to reach out to them yet with all the complaints, until you think about it it makes sense why. Of course Schlage would not help, once they get answered "Is the hub Zwave Certified?" = No, The phone gets hung. up.

So instead the "solution" is to blame Schlage's firmware for what Hubitat hasn't done.

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For what it's worth, I kind of agree with this. If it doesn't work connected directly to the hub - assuming the hub is close enough to the device to have a decent signal - adding repeaters into the equation only adds unnecessary complexity to the troubleshooting.

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Jason, The story changes. The device works when it is the only device connected and close to the hub but has issues when connected otherwise.

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False. People here are blaming both, and speaking to why this is the case.
It's a combination of HE z-wave implementation, Schlange fireware needing a lot of customer work-around as validated by Wink and Vera, and Mesh resiliency.

Many many many of us have highly reliable, super solid HE setups with various Schlage Z-wave locks now, and many people still have issues. I had issues on Wink until they made a ton of firmware specific fixes for them.

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And confirming Schlage issues on other platforms for what it’s worth.

“CriminallyStupid
For whatever it's worth, I've had horrible success with Schlage Z-Wave stuff. I've used the deadbolts and handles but never once have I had it work correctly for more than a few minutes. This isn't unique to Hubitat either the same trouble was seen with Vera, Wink, and Wink 2. Eventually I gave up on these. If you find a better solution I'd love to hear about it.”

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