Lately there's been a LOT of discussion about Z-Wave issues and Locks specifically.
There's also a lot of push/promotion from Hubitat (and community) to use ZigBee over Z-Wave for numerous reasons (some I agree with).
Today I just got curious and I pulled my Hubitat C-5 hub out and took a look at it.
NO Z-Wave Plus Logo/Sticker/Certification number?
I went to the Z-Wave Alliance products site to lookup Hubitat. A simple search for "hubitat" resulted in zero entries. So I went and looked for Hubitat in the Z-Wave Controllers section and there's nothing.
So my question to Hubitat.... What's the Z-Wave Plus certification number for your controller? The C-5 has an internal radio not a USB stick so the product is "embedded" which requires a Z-Wave Plus certification.
Likely .. Semi educated guess to follow...
It appears as though even though it is “embedded” in the box, it is still a serial module and as such doesn’t necessarily require a separate certification.. Again, mostly a guess here..
It's a Z-Wave Plus "controller" or it sells itself as one and such requires certification. Which at this point per the Z-Wave Alliance listing there is no certification. Which means Hubitat is NOT a Z-Wave Plus Certified Controller.
Sure... but that's not how the process works. Hubitat is a gateway controller. Does not matter who makes the chip because well there's only 2 vendors today that can do that. What matters is the firmware and software implementation of following the Z-Wave specs for deployed usage of the "controller" which is the hub.
No controller on the market "makes the chips/modules" yet they all require certification.
Go look at the Z-Wave DB yourself and look at all of the controllers listed. Where is Hubitat? It's not certified.
I looked up "Staples" since that was my first ZWave controller... and it's in the DB from D-Link. In other words, the manufacturer was the submitter.
It's certainly possible the ZWave Alliance changed their own rules but when I read the requirements I concluded that it's a Marketing Certification.. meaning you can't use their Logo without the certification. They'll happily sell you zillions of chips/modules, but you can't use the pretty Logo. This was back when I was trying to justify the $3k to join and get an SDK.
My understanding is that Hubitat is not Z-Wave certified, nor did they ever claim to be (though they are a member of the Alliance). Assuming my understanding of the requirements is correct, there are a couple features they are missing that would be required for this: a "replace" feature (for at least failed nodes; not sure if it's required for all) and S2 support (required as of shortly before Hubitat released the C-3), though they have been lenient on that latter thing in the past (see: the ST v3 hub that they allowed to be certified under the promise that ST would add it later--which, as with many things on ST, is still pending).
It might also be difficult for them given that they support multiple different Z-Wave hardware options (built-in on the C-5, and on that or any model, at least the Aeon Z-Stick, HUSBZB-1, and I think the zwave.me stick, plus various others that unofficially also work). I think the software could be certified separately, or at least that's my guess based on HomeSeer (which is similar in this regard), but my guess (all we can do ) is that none of this is a priority for them at this time--not sure what cost and effort is required to do so.
That's what I've found as well. Yeah they are Z-Wave Alliance "members"... so am I... big whoopie.
What this does mean though is we do not know what functions/features they DO NOT support in their controller (software). This may actually be why so many Z-Wave problems exist (Locks??? hello???) and other Z-Wave devices acting... funky? Hubitat in general does a great job at most things but there is a SERIOUS lack of Z-Wave help or info and LOTS of push to use ZigBee.... I'm pretty sure they're related.
I would assume that the hub didn't go through z-wave certification because it is still in-development. Since the firmware and hardware would be part of the certification, as soon as new firmware was released, that certification wouldn't mean anything anymore. For example, v2.1.8 brought in the latest versions of many z-wave command classes. They would have had to re-submit the hub for certification again after doing so, wouldn't they?
Yes we do. All of the command classes that are supported are readily available. If it's not on that list, I think you can assume that it's not available.
I don't understand what you mean. There is documentation for all the z-wave command classes implemented in the hub firmware. What type of info are you looking for?
Devices have to go through certification before they go to market. If the intent is to be certified as a Z-Wave Gateway/Controller. This does not mean having to go through re-certification on every single little change made because Z-Wave Specs are set and do not change very often and vendors don't generally swap out chips often in products either.
The Software implementation (Hubitat software or firmware if you want to call it that) is at the higher level and can change as needed to fix bugs or to include Z-Wave CC's that were not previously included during initial certification. It is best to then re-cert (shorter process) to validate those new features such as large changes like implementing S2.
This is a vendor statement versus a certifying body. This is great that it's documented on a Wiki but it's just that. There's nothing backing this Wiki other than HE. For most that's plenty.
However it's questionable... what would you do if you bought a device let's say a switch or plug..that was marketed as a z-wave plus device and had great reviews but had odd issues and later discovered it was not actually a z-wave plus device?
Now Hubitat has never to my knowledge actually marketed the HE hub as being a z-waver controller or z-wave gateway nor have they ever made statements around z-wave certification or such. The only thing ever claimed is "Compatible with standard protocols" and in the amazon listing "Connects with many popular Zigbee, Z-Wave and Lutron smart devices. Now supports iris V1 devices". No statement of any kind about Z-Wave certification or Z-Wave Plus for that matter.
So this is NOT an attack on HE. The hub does work with many devices and protocols. It's just not certified to work with a major one.
I'm not talking about Z-Wave support but more about the lack of HE support towards Z-Wave devices. This is centered mostly around Locks as that's been a hot topic I've been watching. The resolution for all of these problems has been blaming the device and blaming z-wave mesh and recommendations are all switch to ZigBee.
The latest was removing a lock from the approved devices list. I'm just looking at this from the outside wondering... what is so off about this? How is it that a lock from a major brand that works well for thousands of other people with other z-wave systems but doesn't work correctly on HE? What is the missing link here? Everyone jumps into the mesh issues and debates and like old TV rabbit ears it's turned into a stand on one leg hold it in the air and turn to the left a little.... but no real answers or diagnostics done.... now granted most of these scenarios on the forum the users have no ability to perform any diagnostics as the hub provides none and most people don't have a CIT or ZW Toolbox.
Now the real answer here I think is simple. Hubitat is not Z-Wave Plus certified so it's not a guarantee that all Z-Wave devices will work. This is one of the principals of the Z-Wave certification. Validation that ALL Z-Wave devices adhere to the standard command classes for base functionality of all devices AND verification of that functionality. Locks are one of those base items that is apparently not that well supported with HE.
I think you have the wrong impression. Hubitat doesn't supportany devices. They merely test them, write drivers if necessary and list them as compatible, not supported
Putting your controller through the certification process in no way guarantees any Z-Wave certified device will join or work with your controller. An example of this is the SmartThings hub and the Ring Keypad. We are not currently able to join this to the HE hub for some reason, but over at the SmartThings forum, they have the same problem and that hub has been Z-Wave Plus certified.
ZC10-19076691, easily found on the Alliance catalog. The last guess I saw about these is that they appear to be S2 only and thus won't work with S0 or lesser controllers, which is almost everything (else) on the market right now. Apparently falling back to S0 is either not required, as widely quoted and assumed, or the certification isn't that rigorous.
Not only that.. But if you read the documentation provided by ring.. It appears that it might be a proprietary pairing process.. As it says to temporarily plug the keypad into the hub via a usb cable to pair it..
Could that just be how they transmit the DSK? I'm unlikely to buy either just to figure that out, and I think the "normal" way (on other controllers) would be scanning the QR code or entering it manually (or just verifying that it matches for less-secure types of devices), but I'm just guessing on the Ring side here.
However this is.. as typical going completely off topic
At the end of the day Hubitat is not a Z-Wave Plus Certified controller so I think end users need to understand this and not expect all Z-Wave Plus devices to function to any degree and be happy that most devices work really well.
See simple point. Which could explain a lot of the Lock issues and other devices that are specifically "Security" based devices.
) is that none of this is a priority for them at this time--not sure what cost and effort is required to do so.
