I can understand the frustration, but how would you propose the company or companies make money?
From the platform or device sales or services.
Let’s turn the tables. How do we expect Hubitat to continue generating revenue without the sale of hubs? Keep creating newer hubs?
There needs to be more I would think to generate money then every two years releasing a new hub. Maybe I’m wrong, and that’s enough ?
Software (and hardware) has been distributed successfully for decades without a centralized service taking a huge cut. If we let companies invent new ways to take money from us ours it's our fault.
Hubitat needs a service, more expensive hubs or other product sales.
1 Like
Going back? It's been that way for nearly 20 years.
Not defending HS but I never minded the 30% because it paid for their expenses and kept them running. They provided the store front, the marketing, the forum, the servers running all of this. It's not like this forum is FREE!
Those centralized services were called "stores". Where you would drive to and then walk inside and buy the software in a box on disks or later CD's and then DVD's and now people just download most everything. From a store.
Running a store whether it's physical or online costs money.
Today companies have to find some way to make money from software because so many users are against paying for.... well... almost everything! There's uprising when you mention a cost for a plugin or app here. Forbid that you considering charging for software updates! Oh yeah that's how software companies used to make money. They charged for updates. So when that shiny new version came out you would BUY IT. It was not FREE.
And people would complain that they are against services and more monthly fees or they would complain it's too expensive. There thankfully will be those that will pay IF the service provided actual benefits.
More expensive hubs? People are already whining about the cost of the hub and asking for discounts!!!!! Everyone here whines that HomeSeer is expensive and yet they will go buy a $45 Hue Ambiance light bulb?!?!?!. ONE SINGLE switch that I use costs more than this Hub!!!
4 Likes
Yep and thats all good - My loyalty to HE and Hubitat is not blind. I am with them up until they no longer suit my needs and then I will look elsewhere. On the flip side the folks at Hubitat should do what makes sense for them to do to keep things going. I'm fine with that too (though I might not always agree..).
It's all about consumer choice and thankfully we still have some even in this age of consolidation.
The trick is figuring out how not to get locked in one way or another. This was the original hope of ST, the current appeal of HE and generally why I prefer opensource solutions.
They don't market for you. You're giving them way too much credit. In fact, going back to the app stores of either iOS or Google... you PAY additional to not be de-prioritized in searches and a ton more to be promoted on TOP of what they already take from you.
I never said anything about physical distribution. Digital distribution is extremely cheap; EXTREMELY cheap compared to 30% over any kind of even small volumes. Digital distribution is SO cheap compared to 30%. Yeesh. This cannot be understated.
You don't understand what I mean by a service at all and that's because I didn't give any examples. I'm not suggesting a monthly service or a fee or anything to change for the base users (us) with Hubitat. Here are a few options that I'll fire off the top of my head without any thought whatsoever. Hubitat could form a partnership or create a monitored security service. They can provide a support service for Hubitat-for-enterprises or contractors/group installs. They could provide non-DIY installs or non-DIY home automation services/consulting. They don't have to charge the base user anything and things can continue on as normal for anybody that doesn't want or need it.
Exactly. The hub is too cheap. I think it's impossible to sustain and I hope they introduce some stability via software updates and a more expensive hub with some nominal improvements to justify it. I can turn this one right back around on you... By playing devil's advocate you are defending HS whether you like it or not. They charge 400+ for some of their hubs/software and offer way less functionality than Hubitat and do get away with it. HE couldn't charge that much right now because there are some kinks to work out and some growing to do but they certainly could charge more. I didn't buy this hub because it was cheap. I bought it for potential, some level of ease over openHAB/hass.io, the community, local processing and flexibility.
Raising the hub price certainly won't put them out of reach of really anybody in my opinion. People are buying the more expensive hubs first and then coming to Hubitat afterwards. I think that says a lot.
I have no experience dealing with the mobile apps stores (thankfully). I will say with the HomeSeer store they would market the plugins or developers "they liked" if you weren't one of the favored aka top selling plugins then they didn't market you because you weren't making THEM money. This unfortunately is business so you have to market yourself. Did I like the large cut. No. But like other stores you had to pay to play and distribution within the HS Store and Updater was the only official way to distribute and provide users with an "easy" installation and update mechanism. So it was a trade off.
Cheaper yes. Or it can be when done right. Was 30% too high. Of course and there were complaints about it and such. Yet it was the price to play.
You're right and you didn't. I didn't quote your whole list of ideas as I get your idea and direction. There are options but there's a lot of work HE needs to do before any of those ideas become plausible.
I really do hope the software can be stabilized and be reliable then they would absolutely be able to increase the price and possibly produce a hub with more ports for external connections. I know many want a software solution to use their own hardware, it might be doable but there's also a lot of support issues with this that HomeSeer also has and it's not a pretty thing to support.
I wouldn't say I'm defending them but more so playing devil's advocate as well 
HS does charge a lot for the software but you can buy a full raspberry Pi with software license for $100 which isn't that bad. It is more limited than Hubitat as you pointed out and currently with no ZigBee it's not going to appeal to the Hubitat user base being mostly Zigbee.
In time. HE is still very young. I do see the issues eventually worked out/resolved then HE would be well suited in that entry level mid market and maybe higher mid market if they introduce a controller with more ports for external connections.
You may not have.
This one is interesting. I know of a few HE users that are previous HomeSeer users like years and years ago used HomeSeer but then moved to Hubitat. I know of the same amount of Hubitat users that have switched to HomeSeer or use both with HomeSeer being the primary and using the plugin to interface Hubitat. I also don't classify HomeSeer as a "hub" either as it's really software and you can buy a pre-installed computer with Windows or Linux but that's not really a "hub".
I dare say we are derailing this thread.
2 Likes
I don’t think this derails the thread at all. This points out pros and cons to both system.
In terms of Hubitat supporting more. I don’t see that argument as much. Depends if you’re okay with the idea of pulling in third party plugins and scripts to get additional device support.
For me, the event engine is more mature. The increase in speed, external OS support, wifi device support, and the z-wave utilities, are all much better. Lastly, the event grouping is also a nice touch.
Lack of zigbee support stinks. Will they iron this out, its to be seen.
In either case, I like both systems, and use both to get my desired results.
If Hubitat could deliver more stability, faster motion lighting, better troubleshooting tools, backup and restore options for z-wave and zigbee, and enhancements to their GUI. I could very well ditch HS and go back to a full install of Hubitat again.
The hub is priced I believe for maximum market share.. in preparation for....
Phase 2: ????
Phase 3: Profit!
I just saw this thread and have been reading through it.
I never looked at HomeSeer before, but I am appalled! $500+ for a hub?!??! $40 for EcoBee plugin? (that's 25% of what I paid for the Ecobee itself!)
1 Like
Yep, expensive.
You're best is to run this off your own hardware, and slowly purchase things as they come up for sale.
The Ecobee plugin amoungst many others are free under HS4. HS4 is still in beta however.
On a side note, I've spent a small fortune on their software, including their z-wave software, plugins, and lastly their z-wave stick (which I don't use).
It's actually a full PC. The SEL model is Linux and the S6 Pro is Windows 10. Yeah still expensive for a DIY system.
All you need is a laptop or a box computer, then purchase HS4 for $100 and a stick.
They would have pay me to use HS4.....
I don't doubt that for a second John!! 
1 Like
Just imagine what you could do with 6 HE hubs and the free community Ecobee driver.
1 Like
