What can I do to delete a Z-Wave Ghost device/loop? Preferably without having to reset the rest of the Z-Wave setup or execute the rather complex “UZB”stick removal (e.g., here, here). The instructions on the web are around 6-months old and I am hoping there is an easier solution that I am missing.
Background: I “accidentally” paired my XL850 Thermostat Z-Wave Hub with the C7 prior to realizing the Hubitat app worked with the cloud (not Z-Wave).
I executed the How to Remove a Z-Wave device instructions and used the Z-Wave Exclude button. There is no exclude button (that I am aware of) on the XL850 ... so I don't think that it excluded properly. I then executed a device Force Remove. The device seems to have been “removed” … but … it left a remnant still showing in the Z-Wave settings. Doing a Z-Wave Exclude and a Refresh does not delete the entry in the Settings/Z-Wave table.
It is not really a ghost node, you just removed the device entry for it. It is still paired to your stat unless you have factory reset the stat (do not do this).
The device must have a way to put it into exclusion mode.
Found it:
First make yourself familiar with this on your device:
On the Z-wave details page on HE put the hub into exclusion mode, and then within about 15 seconds you want to put the device into exclusion mode.
With any luck it will work, exclude the device and remove the node.
Zwave maintains backwards compatibility to its earliest iteration, released by Zensys in 1999. Therefore, the mechanics of inclusion (device addition) and exclusion (device removal) retain constraints imposed by the protocol from its inception.
In his response, @jtp10181, graciously provided you with all the details needed to successfully remove your device without creating a ghost.
jtp10181 Thanks for the response. I have read my manual (and the one you posted). It is still not clear to which option to use ... so I have not proceeded as yet. Other than minor differences in the operation of my thermostat vs the manual ... I can get here ...
But "Remove" this seems to be to remove devices controlled by the thermostat. So that doesn;t seem correct. And selecting the Thermostat Remove option and Excluding on my Hubitat Hub does not exclude.
I can also get here:
This is where I paired using the Learn function (I know ... not good). So I think that created a Hub to Hub pairing. Selecting Unregister seems like it might be the right option ... but it posts a warning screen like this ... and it seems to disable the remote Thermostat Remote control of other devices ... and other (unrelated) stuff. It doesn't seem to do an Exclude.
I guess I could exclude the other three Z-Wave devices that I have and then update to a C8 without the Z-Wave cloud backup. Then include the three on the new C8 hub.
Yes ... I was replying to that post (two posts up) with what my XL850 Thermostat allows. My Thermostat does not have those options ... Just the ones that I showed in my post.
Ok it seems that you have somehow paired the stat to the hub as a secondary controller, not as a device. This is also hinted at in the z-wave details due to the description the node has. Unfortunately it looks like the stat only gives you the exclude option if it is paired as a repeater.
You will probably have to factory reset the stat and then once that is done you might be able to remove the ghosted node, if the neighbors count eventually drops down to 1.
jtp10181 ... Thanks for taking another look at my XL850 settings. I concur that I appear to be screwed. As you indicated in your first post "... factory reset the stat (do not do this)."
As you likely know the XL850 contains all of the Air Conditioner installation settings ... so a factory reset (although not rocket science) is potentially a bigger problem than the C7 "ghost" node.
I will likely proceed to go with the C8 migration path ... Exclude the three Z-Wave devices on my C7, and not migrate the Z-Wave Radio to the C8. Then include the devices on my C8.
The icon shown above is a "Z-Wave" factory reset, so I suspect it will reset only the Z-wave on the stat.
Be aware if you migrate without the Zwave radio, the "device" entries will still carry over. Then to avoid DNI conflicts, before pairing any z-wave devices, you need to either rename the DNI of those device entries or force remove them.
Also, the stat will still be "paired" to the old hub in its software, so it will probably be spamming out zwave communications to a non-existent hub indefinitely.
I concur that we "suspect" this factory reset may just reset the Z-Wave hub ... but before I try it I will have to believe that I can re-setup the whole A/C system if it resets everything (let's face it ... it is a poorly named button) ... which is a little scary. I'll contact Trane and see if they can give me a definitive answer.
WRT "... Be aware if you migrate without the Zwave radio, the "device" entries will still carry over." Can I not:
Exclude the current (3) Z-Wave devices on my C7 ...
Not migrate Z-Wave to the C8 to get rid of the XL850 hub "pairing" ... and then
Pair the 3 Z-Wave devices back up?
As I am closer to newbie, I am not understanding your point about rename/force remove the DNI. Are you saying that the Z-Wave EXLUDE does not delete the device? So my theorized should be ...
Exclude the current (3) Z-Wave devices on my C7 ...
Rename the DNI of those device entries or force remove them.
Not migrate Z-Wave to the C8 to get rid of the XL850 hub "pairing" ... and then
That would also work and avoid the extra steps I gave, but would disconnect your devices from any apps/automations in the process. Which may not be a big deal for you to setup again.
The nodes and devices would be removed, so you would not have to rename anything afterwards, nor would you be able to use swap apps.
This is my concluding post on my issue explaining what I did. I think that I am good ... I contacted Trane Support and they suggested that I need to "Unregister" ... and they were quite certain and adamant. Of course they were wrong ... and that just disconnected me from remote control of the device!!! I think that we all knew that.
I found a later manual for my XL850 (the software has probably updated and added the Factory Reset capability after I got my XL850 .... and so my manual is out of date.) The new manual states (as jtp10181 said) ...
Factory Reset – Resets all Z-Wave information and removes all devices from the bridge. ... Bridge Information – If this bridge is being used as a secondary or inclusion controller in the network, please reset this bridge only in the event that the primary controller is missing or otherwise inoperable.
No surprise that jtp10181 was correct! After backing up all my thermostat data (i.e., the technician settings) and building up enough courage ... I pressed the Factory Reset button ... and the XL850 Z-Wave Bridge reset to no Z-Wave nodes.
I went back to the Hubitat Hub Settings/Z-Wave, and the Trane Z-Wave Bridge was still shown so I executed a general Z-Wave exclusion as follows: Devices/Add Device/Z-Wave Start Z-Wave Exclusion button
I did not see any positive "exclusion" result (maybe I missed it).
I went back to Settings/Z-Wave and the Status on the XL850 Z-Wave Bridge showed “Pending.”
I selected Remove and the device was removed.
I still had a weird "ghost" loop shown in the Device graph ... which I was going to ignore ... but after 15 minutes ... that went away too!
So ... now I don't have to exclude all my (3) Z-Wave devices, and not transfer my Z-Wave configuration when I move to the C8 hub.
The exclude would not work since you reset the zwave on the stat, so it does not know the network ID anymore to exclude itself from. You basically created a ghost node by doing the reset, you got lucky it removed so easily, sometimes they are stubborn. There was really no other way to do it though, since the stat is bugged and did not have an exclusion option once you paired it as a controller.
I think that we all knew that.
