Groups and Scenes

I have some more info on this. For some reason, it is not comparing the CT when it is in CT mode and the bulb scene calls out CT. Bulb work fine when in RGB mode. The scene is active whenever the devices match up with the settings in the scene but as soon as any of the bulbs in the scene are in CT mode, everything goes all cattywampus. I'm not able to get a scene with any CT device in it to match up after the first time it is activated.

I wanted to add a group to a scene and set the action on "no selection", but I'm not allowed. I can only chose "on" or "off". Why would I do this? Because in scene 1 I use the group as a whole and since I have a button for that group on my dashboard it lights up when I activate scene 1. Scene 2 uses the lights from that group individually, Changes color for one of them. But I can only do that when I use the lights individually in that scene. But when I turn on scene 1 and then turn to scene 2 and at the end turn off scene 2, the group still thinks it's "on", so the button for the group stays lit on the dashboard... Or is there another solution to this?

Why would you have something in the scene and then not control it with that scene? Just leave it out of the scene. That has the same effect as having "no selection" in the scene.

The button stays lit in the dashboard when the scene matches the devices current state.

For exactly the reason I mentioned. Because what you say is simply not true. If you have a group of two lightbulbs and you switch on the group the tile for the group is lit on your dashboard. If you switch off the lights one by one putting all lights in the group in their off state, the group stays lit on the dashboard.

And I'm not controlling the "on" action in the scene, but I want it in there to get the "off" action.

I said scene, not group. They are not the same.

@bravenel, can I get a ruling? When all the devices in a scene match the scene settings, the scene switch on a dashboard turns on, correct?

That could be the case, and is nice to know. But I'm not talking about a scene. And as far as I know scene switches on dashboard don't light up.

The do when you use the switch template.

I still don't understand why you'd want something in a scene that isn't programed as part of the scene.

It's hard to explain. It is part of scene A. And since I move from scene A to scene B without turning of scene A first. It should be part of scene B. But not as part of it's "on" action but only as part of it's "off" action.

Doesn't work that way. If you want the light to stay the same, use the same settings in scene B

Haha, I've noticed that. Hence my original question :slight_smile:

And why cant you have the same settings for the lights in both scenes? That would make it work.

Because in scene A I turn on the group of lights and in scene B I only change one individual light of that group. But maybe I should only make two buttons to turn on scene A or B and one separate button to turn off all the lights in those scenes.

You're not listening.... I give up, good luck.

Thank you for that statement, this really helps newcomers like me enjoy the journey to a solution. /sarcasm

Maybe you are not the one understanding me, or maybe you are not the one with the solution. That is all fine, somebody else might. But no need for enforcing your way and if that is not what I want telling me I'm not listening.

Besides that I'm still curious why it is, or if it's going to be changed that is I turn on a group, and then turn off all lights in that group individually the group state isn't changed to "off". Maybe @bravenel can shed some light on that? (Pun intended :smile:)

Scenes aren't mirrors of their member states, they are snapshots of currnet device states of their members, which when activated are then applied.
They don't really have an on or off state in reality, despite them being represented by a switch.

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To be honest I understand that and they actually do exactly what I expect them to do. But I'm more curious about groups.

Groups don't take on any attribute changes from their members either, They are meant to be a command proxy for multiple members.
It is possible for them to do so, but it gets ugly as the resulting group state by nessicity will be some bizarre and or irrelevant average of its members attributes...

Some time ago you guys put in scene tracking so that when the light levels match the scene definition the scene switch state is set to "on". (And set to off if any do not match the scene definition.)

There is an issue with tracking that @bravenel was aware of (I haven't checked to see if it's been fixed in about a month). The scene tracking can send "off" events when a scene is in the process of activating, but not yet fully active. Think of even a 2 second fade. That becomes an issue if one is using scene "off" events as a trigger in a rule.

I'd love to see the Hubitat Group state definitions/behavior be changed to if any group devices are on then the group state is on, if all devices are off then the group state is off.

That matches Lutron Toggle in RadioRA 2, Apple HomeKit, and Hue group behavior.

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The issue I have with this being that it could mislead the user into believing that the group state indeed reflects the state of its members, which as mentioned isn't really practical.
If you consider groups and scene devices as being command proxies rather than an explicit device this distinction becomes clearer.
To be honest, a scene probably could have been a button with no inherent on off state, and a group device not having any attributes what so ever.