So I put in a new fireplace that I like very much (Natural gas direct vent) but I REALLY wanted to have an accent light inside that would light the log-set when the fire is off... just to add some nice ambiance to the room when we don't have the fire on.
I know... it is somewhat insane. So I got some wire, a ceramic base, and a hallogen bulb and rigged it up... works quite well and so far has survived a couple fire cycles to boot.
The light comes on via HE in the evening and shuts off at 930pm or so. I'd like to also have it shut off if someone flips the fire on... I am not sure ... but I thought maybe having the bulb lit while the fire is burning might be just a bit much stress on the bulb ??
But I haven't come up with a great way to sense when the fire is on... best idea so far is to sense the temperature under the firebox (where my zigbee plug is that runs the light) and if it gets warm... assume the fire is on and shut off the bulb.
I don't know... this is the lounge... so just making conversation and soliciting ideas or thoughts
How are you turning on your fireplace? If you turn on a switch to short a relay, you could look to add something like a ZEN-16 to act as a sensor. You'd break the relay to the switch, and connect it to the ZEN-16. Then when you turn on the switch, it'll activate the relay to turn on the fireplace. While that's the normal operation of the fireplace, you can now use the status of the relay in the ZEN-16 to turn off your ambience light
Interesting.. .that hot huh? OK then. I thought a natural gas flame was more like 2000 degree's ... no? If it is only 500.... then my system should be plenty robust!
Good question... these days it is hard to get a fireplace that just turns on and off by a switch... I actually tried pretty hard for that but only the lower-end units had that. This one comes with an overly configured remote control with all sorts of stuff I don't need. I probably can find a wire that goes hot when someone kicks on the remote... I may look for that... wife is not super keen on me modifying things we just bought... but she does seem to be ok with the light (which I put in when she was out!)
Yes and no, it is not the temperature of a halogen in this case because, to my understanding, all lights share this definition of color temperature regardless of which material is used to generate light. That temperature in Kelvin refers to the light emitted by an "ideal black-body radiator" at that temperature, which to my knowledge does not exist in nature, except according to that article in black holes and even then it isn't "ideal" technically. Long story short, that temperature cannot be converted into a usable metric, but is merely a reference point like most of our definitions of units and only really has meaning because we say so.
While I agree your response is technically correct, it would not have been helpful to the OP. From a practical standpoint in many cases the error is trivial. Below is an excerpt from a Fluke application note for non-contact temperature measurements.
" Emissivity is the measure of an object's ability to emit infrared energy. Emitted energy indicates the temperature of the object. Emissivity can have a value from 0 (shiny mirror) to 1.0 (blackbody). Most organic, painted, or oxidized surfaces have emissivity values close to 0.95 "
So even if the original assumption of temperature was off by 10%, the conclusion was and is valid.
Apparently many materials thinks so as well. It is common practice in the heat treating and welding industry to use the color of a heated metal part to determine the granular phase (likely the wrong term) of a metal. While I suspect their estimate of temperature would not match that of a thermocouple touching the object it is apparently close enough to be part of a controlled process.
I'll bet money you use color to estimate temperature. Perhaps when sitting in front of a fire you hear a "pop" and a small piece of wood (charcol?) comes out of the fire and lands near you. It is still Red....your mind might think .... gee that is still hot I won't touch it.
Please note, my response is meant to be a light (no pun) response to a different opinion I do not mean in to be nasty or aggressive. I do this for my enjoyment and hopefully others
First of all, I did not take your response to be nasty or aggressive at all, and I hope mine does not come across that way either.
I get that completely, and as you said, I too estimates the heat of things by their color, but at the same time, that color estimation does not have a numerical value in my head, even if it did, it would have to be a range of values, it usually is a personal definition stemming from experience as opposed to a standardized and scientific definition, which imo is not very useful for the OP as he is trying to make sure that the bulb with the additional heat from the fire would not break it in some way.
This is the main point I was trying to explain. For instance, according to Wikipedia, "A 300 watt tubular halogen bulb operated at full power quickly reaches a temperature of about 540 °C (1,004 °F), while a 500 watt regular incandescent bulb operates at only 180 °C (356 °F) and a 75 watt regular incandescent at only 130 °C (266 °F)." Now what is unclear about this is which temperature that is exactly, outer glass casing or the actual halogen element.
All I was trying to say is that color temperature is not necessarily and in fact rarely is the same as physical temperature, so making a conclusion based on color temperature of a bulb and the physical temperature of a fireplace is bound to have issues.
What I would recommend is look at the operating temperatures of various light bulbs and if you can, try to track and log the temperature at the intended location with a typical fire. Alternatively, you could mess with the placement so that you can spotlight the fireplace from somewhere else in the room, making that light unaffected by the heat.
This is the main point I was trying to explain. For instance, according to Wikipedia, "A 300 watt tubular halogen bulb operated at full power quickly reaches a temperature of about 540 °C (1,004 °F), while a 500 watt regular incandescent bulb operates at only 180 °C (356 °F) and a 75 watt regular incandescent at only 130 °C (266 °F)." Now what is unclear about this is which temperature that is exactly, outer glass casing or the actual halogen element
The number quoted by your reference is the glass temperature. For a sanity check, consider the consequence of having to design a desk lamp containing a piece of glass at over 3000 °C (i.e.3300 °K)
please refer to: The Great Lamp book
As you mentioned in your earlier post, we don't have any ideal black body radiators (BBR). However if Fluke was correct its not difficult to get within 5% of the ideal BBR. So for this exercise I expect such an accuracy is more than adequate.
If you review the below it shows there is direct correlation between Temperature and color. With a basis of Plank's constant.
i actually have a switch for mine, but it's just a dry contact that shorts a relay i guess. i got kinda bummed since i wanted to put a z-wave+ switch to control it. now i'm debating between putting a switchbot or a ZEN-16. it's not something i use often, so i'm thinking the switchbot just because i have it sitting doing nothing for now
I realize we went off the tracks with color temperature however I am confident you bulbs will work satisfactorily
What I didn't consider at the time is THE WIRE LIMITATION
You might get away with teflon insulation. My (old) grill probe was teflon. It survived fine until it was attached directly by the flame.
My recommendation is to use a low voltage light (12V) with a overload protected power supply. This way if something does go wrong it will be relatively safe.
If you wanted to get wire with a higher temperature capability you should look for glass fiber insulated wire. You might be able to find some in a appliance repair store as it is/was used in some electric stove tops.
I am the OP and have enjoyed the conversation! Good idea on the low voltage light... I probably should have thought of it but that is rarely my style. LOL.
I wish I had a high temp thermo couple... but I don't... It'll be the school of hard knocks here... I probably should put a low value fuse inline I guess....
I thought about putting the whole fireplace on HE but to tell you the truth.. the system aint reliable enough for me...the last thing I want to find when I come home from a weekend away is that there was a glitch in my matrix and the fireplace has been on all weekend...
I know you already have your device but I just want to mention, they make fireplaces that have what you want builtin. Mine has a nice LED accent light that I can control in HE via BOND RF. If that's an option, it's definitely much safer (as in UL listed) than putting wiring inside a fireplace yourself.
Yep I know... but alas, we have too many requirements in this installation and a model that meets them all (for us) does not exist. I looked for a LONG time actually... Thanks!!!
I do not mean in to be nasty or aggressive. I do this for my enjoyment and hopefully others 
