Do you routinely install updates?

[neonturbo]

@1449smarthomeautomat

I always download a backup right before just in case.

I forgot to mention this. I also do so, but have never needed to use it. Better safe than sorry!

[rcjordan]

@neonturbo

In exactly zero instances have I "lost functionality", or had an update be "detrimental", or crashed the hub

Same here. I just wait a week so the patches are done and I only have to install once and be done with it.

[1449smarthomeautomat]

Why didn't I think of that? Lol

[jrh1194]

I’ve been installing them as soon as they are posted. Occasionally there is an issue but it gets corrected quickly.

[alexcapone]

I install right away but more recently these updates are taking away features that once existed. One example is that back in August there was a new HE release that would no longer allow you to add z-wave security with "none". Instead you can only add with S2 unauthenticated which I believe is not the same thing.

[djw1191]

@alexcapone

recently these updates are taking away features that once existed.

Yeah I’m going to go ahead and say that’s not accurate.

@alexcapone

August there was a new HE release that would no longer allow you to add z-wave security with "none". Instead you can only add with S2 unauthenticated which I believe is not the same thing.

Yeah this is inaccurate. The prompt changed, but you can still click skip and a S2 device will join without security. I just joined 2 devices last week utilizing the skip button.

[alexcapone]

This in fact did happen in a release and you can refer to this thread/post if you want to read about it:

Zooz Zen26 can no longer be included with Security=None

The inclusion problem is from Hubitat new firmware release. They tried to simplify the inclusion process as a lot of people were confused about the checkboxes, but in doing so they eliminated the choices. Another thread I saw people asking for an advanced inclusion that brought back all the options like before so maybe Hubitat will add it back. As for the S2 support, my driver you are using has always supported S2. I have also had a few random device lockups out of about a dozen various Zooz sw…

Maybe it was reintroduced in a later release but that doesn't help me for devices that I've already added when adding with no security was not available at that point in time.

[djw1191]

@alexcapone

This in fact did happen in a release and you can refer to this thread/post if you want to read about it

This is behavior for a single device, whether a device firmware bug or an issue on the Hubitat side I can’t say. But that isn’t an example of a feature being removed.

In fact, you’ll notice I commented multiple times in that thread.

Zooz Zen26 can no longer be included with Security=None

Well I think they did, the use of the skip button is supposed to include without security. Or at least that’s my understanding of what skip means in this context. The mystery is why that doesn’t work on this specific device. I suspect if skip wasn’t working at all we would be seeing a lot more complaints.

Zooz Zen26 can no longer be included with Security=None

Yeah don’t know what to tell you, it’s gotta be something unique to these zooz devices. I haven’t joined a S2 device in a bit, but clearly it’s not a universal problem for all S2 devices as demonstrated by the below quote. Why it’s not working for these Zooz devices I couldn’t tell you. Perhaps @bcopeland has some sort of insight on why skip isn’t working as intended.

Here are two.

Here’s another where staff mentioned looking into it as a bug.

Zooz Zen26 can no longer be included with Security=None

This is known and a solution is being investigated.

Like I said, I’ve joined multiple device, utilizing no security and the skip button successfully over the last couple of months. In fact, I just joined a zen26 last weekend without security. So pretty good sign the feature still exists.

My goal isn’t to argue with you, you are stating something that isn’t accurate and I just want to correct that for anyone who might read this thread.

[alexcapone]

Whether by design or due to a bug I'm not able to utilize a feature for my Zooz devices.

Since the update I recently (September I believe) added two zen 27s and was not able to add with no security. So the feature is not available to me.

This was not YMMV before the firmware update and now it is. I'm just pointing out why it may not be a good idea to update right away which is what the OP is asking about.

[djw1191]

@alexcapone

recently these updates are taking away features that once existed.

That’s fine to watch out for bugs and I think it’s reasonable to wait some amount of time before updating, but what you’re saying is at odds with your original statement. A bug, regardless of who is at fault, is not an example of a feature being removed. Further, you’re suggesting multiple features have been removed in your original message, but you certainly haven’t provided examples.

Either way, I don’t have anything further to add. I’ve provided enough clarification and detail for those who follow to make up their own mind. Good luck!

[Stephan.J]

As someone who was over 100 smart devices (zwave, zigbee, Lutron, Hubduino) and also has over 40 RM rules, 5-10 simple automations, button controllers, and dashboards. Plus a variety of other apps (both built in and custom), I have never had an update break any functionality of my HE.

The way I figure it, there is probably around a million things that could go wrong in an update, on average they find only 2-5 things that go wrong. My hub probably only uses 10 000 out of the million different ways a device or automation could be structured. Odds are that any given update will have no effect on my hub (other then providing me with new and improved software to create automations, while all my existing stuff still works). But eventually I imagine I will have one or two rules or devices stop working after an update, no big deal as these are typically fixed within a few days.

I update as soon as I see an update available.

[alexcapone]

@djw1191

A bug, regardless of who is at fault, is not an example of a feature being removed. Further, you’re suggesting multiple features have been removed in your original message, but you certainly haven’t provided examples.

I think we're starting to get into semantics here. First of all I never used the word "removed". When I said an update was "taking away features" I mean that the capabilty is no longer available. The only thing I care about is that I'm not able to do what I did before.

I'll update my statement to "took away a feature" (singular form). Or for better clarification an update "made a feature incapable of working as intended for my device and is currently being investigated so that it can be fully functional in a future update ".

[672southmain]

@alexcapone

Since the update I recently (September I believe) added two zen 27s and was not able to add with no security. So the feature is not available to me.

First, I don’t have this device, and haven’t added any device in months, so I don’t know if the inclusion feature you need has changed or not.

However, to address your stated need, you should be able to roll back to firmware 2.2.8.156, the release that was out in September, do the inclusion, then roll forward to the current release (2.2.9.131) that may be missing the inclusion menu you want.

[velvetfoot]

I've been updating the betas with no problems, knock on wood.
I have a feeling that there could be problems if you wait too long to update.

[jshimota]

A perfect example of the process -

[RELEASE] Follow Me - Speaker control with priority messaging, volume controls, voices and sound files!

//SpeechSynthesis capability.speechSynthesis change command speak(String text, Integer volume = null, String awsPollyVoiceName = null) So it looks like in 2.2.6, the parameters of SpeechSynthesis changed but were not required and didn't send if null Now in 2.2.9, the volume is sending whether selected or not (it is sending a null value). ie. - old value being sent from RM using 'speak' This is a test new value being sent from RM using 'speak' if volume is selected: This is a test, 35 if …

[TomG]

Even back in the ‘90s when I was working on PCs, if a BIOS update was available, I’d grab it. Same with any software or firmware upgrade. It’s not like these were tested for a few hours then we are the guinea pigs to sort it out. Hardly. Beta testers go through these updates first. There will be some updates for the update, but with HE that is rare.

Consider Apple iOS 15, 15.0.1 and 15.0.2 and this is from one of the largest companies in the world. Their updates are tested by thousands before being release to the general public and they still have issues.

I have yet to experience any issues after an update with my two main hair pulling systems, Hubitat Elevation and Wyze but I don’t go deep into everything HE can do. Mostly simple rules and automations.

[alexcapone]

I actually bought a Zstick which I believe is capable of adding devices with no security. But if that doesn't work I will probably try exactly what you've suggested.

[alexcapone]

So I tried adding via the normal pairing process and it looks like the issue was fixed in a subsequent firmware update.

[kahn-hubitat]

I wait when a new release comes out. After a few hot fixes I read what kind of issues people are having and if not too severe or I dont believe it will effect me ... I update..

After many hotfixes are out I update pretty regularly for the house I am in. For the other house that is empty I don't update that regularly in case I run into issues.

[jshimota]

@TomG I have to disagree. As a young man, there WERE tests done by true 'beta' test sites before anything went out. as the speed of development accelerated, the user community BECAME the guinea pig. And they liked it. Guys signed up for being beta testers to get new code as quickly as possible. and as thing continued to evolve, the internal test groups died and external tests became the norm. now, at the push of a button you just say 'yea, I'd like to test the beta code' and viola. you work for them. And Apple is completely reliant on the community. Heck. lets just be honest - even HE is currently, actively looking for free labor ala 'beta testers'. Oink.