Dimmer desired: No neutral and smart bulb control both required

I know Inovelli supports this, but they are currently sold out.

Any other vendors have dimmer switches that work w/out a neutral and allow "smart bulb mode" where the switch doesn't manage the load, just turns a smart bulb on/off and controls dimming?

I can wire nut the light on in the box and put in a Pico in, but my wife wants a "normal" switch in this location as it's in our guest room and she doesn't want to have to explain how things work or have them get confused.

Have you thought of using a Pico remote and โ€œhard wiringโ€ the switch?

1 Like

Great minds...was just updating my post about that. :slight_smile: Yeah, wife wants a "normal" switch in this location.



I would check Zooz as an alternative. I have one of there scene switches and the top button that controls the load has that option, so maybe also their dimmer?

I just checked and at least for their dimmer switches they seemed to require a neutral. I'll check again to make sure I didn't miss something.

You know, I'm just going to use the smart bulb somewhere else and just put in a Zooz switch w/a standard LED bulb and leave it at that. Wife will prefer the simplicity of a setup she uses in other parts of the house. I wanted to use a smart bulb so I could have it flash red or other colors on certain alerts, but just not worth the trouble given the relatively infrequent use of the room, which is mostly me escaping from my wife's occasional log sawing at night. :slight_smile:

1 Like

Suggestion: Get a smart bulb(s) (dimming or color, your choice). Use that in the fixture with it hard-wired on (no switch in loop, may violate building code?) or keep the existing switch and keep it turned on.

Then get a wall-mount button controller from the compatible devices list. A lot of them look similar to dimmer switches and mount in standard wall plates. A list of these devices can be found on the Compatible Devices List (sort by Device Type and scroll down).: "List of Compatible Devices - Hubitat Documentation".

Control would be using Rule Machine to set the smart bulb to desired state/level when the Button Controller changes it's attributes. Virtually no delay.

1 Like

Is the Lutron Aurora non-confusing enough? It could fit over a normal switch. Otherwise the Zooz ZEN34, actually a battery powered remote, looks exactly like most smart paddle switches but would require you to hardwire the "real" switch underneath, so that may not be desirable (also requires a rather firm button press IMHO).

1 Like

I've tried the "use this switch, not that switch" approach w/my family and it has never worked. Not a crowd pleaser. :wink:

I am constantly amazed at what is confusing. :wink:

My wife is amazingly bright and talented in every area outside any home automation, where the slightest deviation from paddle switches throws her for a loop. Except for Picos, she has learned to love them. :slight_smile:

I would prefer not to hardwire this one since unlike a couple ceiling fans I've done this with, the wall light is easy to reach and wouldn't want someone else to get shocked when changing a bulb if they assumed the light was off 'cause the switch is off.

I considered the Zen34 but had aside from having to hardwire, I had heard about the harder press required and so that one would not fit in the "not different from normal" category. :slight_smile:

1 Like

It is hard to please Significant others Who Must Be Obeyed (SWMBO). You could by-pass the switch in the wall and put the new switch on top. When you go to sell, you will have to reinstall the wall switch. I would look on-line to see how.

1 Like

Honestly I can't recommend anything besides Lutron just because they work. If she's likes the PICO's, she'll like the regular dimmers and they don't require a neutral.

This maybe??

Ah, but she wants a "normal" paddle switch in this location because it's the guest bedroom. She run rings around me, logically. :wink:

Now I'm not sure what you (or she) means. :slight_smile: The Inovelli you mentioned as a possibiliy is basically the same as the above as far as the paddle is concerned--all I've seen rest in the middle/neutral position so they can be tapped up for on or down for off, almost like a normal switch...but I'm not aware of any that physically move and stick that way.

I'm guessing options like the ThirdReality that go over the existing switch and move it have also been ruled out?

@erktrek @danabw ...I tried this Enbrighten 52252 no neutral dimmer some months ago and it did not work for me. I tried to use it with a dimmable LED bulb and when the dimmer was off the bulb would glow but would not turn off. I assume the bulb would not turn off because the low current the dimmer needs to operate. I ended up returning the dimmer.

1 Like

If you are saying that you want a "normal" single paddle switch, then what you need is an in-wall relay switch. Also, you need one that does not require a neutral.
Aeotec makes one, so does sunricher on your favourite Chinese board.
Is that what you want?
Also, if you are willing to go with wifi control, then a Shelly 1L will do the trick.

Double switches or anything involving covering up an existing switch and adding another are verboten! Absolultely verboten!! Were you not in the four hour class wherein the verbotness was clearly (and in excruciating detail) explained!! :wink:

That's actually what I've decided I have to do...I actually have the switch version of that in another location. The electrician accidentally installed it during the remodel. He helped himself from the wrong box of switches (w/big "Don't Use" label) I'd set aside, and installed it in a new location where I do have a neutral. So I'm going to remove that no-neutral switch from it's current location, replace it w/an extra GE Z-Wave + dimmer I have, and then put the no-neutral GE switch in the guest bedroom and change the bulb to a dumb bulb.

The things I do ensure marital bliss.

OMG yes. Especially when they are part luddite. :wink: When I reincarnate I'm going to marry an IT person. Then at least I'd have a fighting chance that they would support my HA habit. :smiley:


Ah...didn't think of this. No experience w/relays, and don't know if they have "smart bulb" mode.

At this point I think given the fact that a no-neutal switch was "wasted" in a spot where I have a neutral, the simplest and wife-approved approach will be to move the no-neutral switch to the guest bedroom.

@danabw If the no-neutral switch is a Enbrighten 52252 you may need to make sure the dumb bulb you use will work with it. See my post above...The 52252 did not work with the dumb dimmable LED bulb I tried to use it with. I could have tried to experiment with other bulbs but I ended up returning the dimmer

1 Like

Thanks for reminding me - I remeber your post now. That is the product I have - I misremembered that I had a no-neutral switch, but it is a dimmer (maybe unfortunately).

I can't remember - did you ever try using Jason Joels excellent driver for GE/Jasco/etc., Z-Wave+ Enbrighten dimmers, that allows you to turn them into a switch? Just thought of it in this context, and thinking that might solve the flicker/glow problem to set the dimmer as a switch in his driver. I don't really need dimming on this light.

1 Like