Concerns about the size of Hubitat Elevation

I guess a salient question would be; How wide is too wide?

FWIW, We have 9 Leviton dimmer modules of the same era as your switches (including Vizia rf). I have no signal issues but some of them don't work all the time. For us its not an issue since they control ambience lighting.

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You might not need more Hubitat hubs. You might need some devices that can also act as repeaters to extend your mesh. I use mainly Zigbee devices. The GE/Jasco switches and dimmer, the other hard-wired switches and the plug-in switches act as repeaters and make for a strong mesh here. If your house is mainly Z-Wave, you would need to find Z-Wave repeaters. For some devices, the hub they use is serving the same purpose such as Philips Hue lighting from what I understand.

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The issue is there are so many different factors it's hard to see what the optimal solution is until you actually do the install. In my case making sure things work the first time and reliably has led me to adopt the multi-hub strategy for clients with larger homes. I just get less callbacks and have less headaches that way - but that's my experience of course and everyone's situation is different.

According to @HubiNubi they had 3 wink hubs in order to get things working properly even though some of their devices repeat - To me this is a good indicator that maybe a multi-hub solution might be good for HE as well. I would probably start with 2 and go from there, also maybe look at replacing some of the older Z-Wave (non -plus) devices.

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Lots of posts, and my own experience, would tend to indicate that devices don't really like hopping through the aeotec extenders. I just took mine out, they were being ignored. Maybe think of some other type that would do the same thing, or some plugs?

Wow, that's pretty clean. Thanks for sharing! Lot's of folks are certainly PRO-Multi-hub, and I'll admit, my system was running really well with multiple Winks...

That's a good point and exactly what works sometimes and not on others, ambience lighting...

Thanks everyone for the input! I have 6 aeotec range extenders I had ordered not knowing any better and they are arriving today. SO, I'm going to do a quick install with them, knowing after reading the comments that I will most likely have to gut them and go with a multi-hub solution but regardless, I'll post the successes and failures here in the hopes that it helps someone else along the way. One thing I'm going to find out real quick is if the Aeotec Range Extender 7 EVEN SUPPORTS legacy z-wave, because the product packaging is all about Z-Wave "Plus"... So, it may do absolutely nothing on my system with my older devices... We shall see.

Thanks again everyone! Really appreciate all of your time and help!

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It does. Zwave plus is backwards compatible with zwave.

The biggest pain with Zwave vs Zwave Plus is that non plus did not allow for "network wide" inclusion/exclusion. This means to include/exclude you need to be within radio range of the hub itself. Once included it can use other devices in the mesh to communicate. Zwave plus can include/exclude using other devices in the existing mesh so they can be included in their final destination.

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I have these and the Range Extender 7. Both repeat just fine.

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Wouldn't waste money on those. I bought two of the range extender 7's, nothing routes through them at all. They are pretty much just night lights at this point. I probably should pull them out and sell them.

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I've got one, and something is routing through it, so YMMV. I also scanned your other entry about your first install day. Remember, you need to add some of the older Zwave devices very close to the hub, then move them.

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@HubiNubi Just as an aside.... Technology has come a long way since wink was introduced. It's generally a much more powerful platform. That said, I have a 5600 sqft house and only use one for controlling everything. (Z-wave,, zigbee, clear connect). If you do feel the need to have more than one, hub mesh is indeed a powerful tool...

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That’s encouraging on the size of the home and single hub. Perhaps I’ll try adding lights first today and see if that helps. Yesterday I did put the hub by both locks and added them, but then when I moved the hub away the lock I moved away from quit working so not sure why but I’ll keep trying at it!

The locks are gen 1 zwave and so they are pretty old at this point. Perhaps I should upgrade them to WIFI and not even have them as a part of the Zwave System...

Thanks again for everyone’s help!

Success w/Repeaters is really a YMMV situation - you'll find some folks have success w/a device that just won't repeat for you. Personally, I've had little success so far w/Aeotec 6 and 7 repeaters and Ring repeaters.

My best repeaters overall have been the GE/Jasco/Honeywell wall-wart plugs (they really are quite large and ugly) and a little known, no longer made AFAIK plug called the Hank plug that is even better, but since you can't really find it any more probably not an option. Both repeat like champions for me. My GE/Jasco/Honeywell switches (like the "Quiet Cool Fan" switch in the list below) also do well:
image

One word of caution - you have to give the repeaters a while to see if they will get used...like could be several weeks. After you install the repeaters, you may also want to try a repair on the Z-Wave Details page for the specific devices that have weak connections that you'd like to get to use a nearby repeater.

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ZW mesh is a mysterious & finicky beast - thank SiLabs for that -- it's all on them.

As @danabw says, patience is key -- place reputable ZW repeaters in good spots as you build your mesh -- those don't have to be dedicated repeater-only devices, just devices capable of repeatibg (i.e. almost any not-ancient mains-powered ZW device).

Then be patient -- it may take days or weeks or even longer before things really settle in well... In the meantime, attempts to coerce or prod along progress just seem to anger the mesh gods -- it's a path to insanity, so just resist meddling! Trust in good placement of good devices and be very patient.

My 4 Aeotec RE7s took a loooong time to kick in... I was at the point of ripping them out, but since they were long bought & paid for and weren't taking up plug space I otherwise needed, I just decided to leave them be. One day, they all just came alive and they're now each repeating at least one thing. Today they are the backbone of my ZW mesh (just as I originally hoped them to be), but it took a crazy long time for them to get there. Who knows why.

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One final note...don't try to fix problems that aren't problems. In some cases you may see what seems like crazy routing on your Z-Wave Devices page... i.e., Device A near the hub that chooses to route through Device B farther away from the hub.

Unless you're having issues w/the reliability/responsiveness of Device A, just ignore it. Z-Wave will often "just work" when you leave it alone. :slight_smile:

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I live in a brick and mortar 3200sqf two storeys home on a 28000sqf property. From the main entrance door to the garden’s lights, everything is run on a single HE. Now, mostly Zigbee, with bulbs and plugs acting as repeaters. 90% of lights are automated. Everything is fast and reliable.

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You don't want wifi as that is cloud based. For z-wave locks you may want a beaming repeater near by. That would also help strengthen your z-wave mesh..

You may want to look at this as well

https://docs.hubitat.com/index.php?title=How_to_Build_a_Solid_Z-Wave_Mesh

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If going that route I would also suggest looking into replacing the Z-Wave module with Zigbee. Unfortunately the module is sold out on the Yale site and outrageously priced elsewhere.

Also are you sure your Z-Wave modules are Z-Wave only? I have a YRD256 and the module I had (switched to ZB a while ago) is listed as Z-Wave Plus - purchased in 2018. My even older "Real Living" lock was probably just Z-Wave though. If your lock is ZW+ you should be okay.

Also I agree with @rlithgow1 - WiFi is probably not the way to go.

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For my part, I have one hub and the power of the processor is high enough to handle all my rules and I have many ones with a bunch of very complex ones.

The radio is not the best I've seen so I had to rely on extenders. I use the Aeotec ones for Z-Wave and they work very well.

For Zigbee I simply bought some Ikea Plugs that act automatically as extenders. Some have no automation use but work as extenders and they are very cheap. Building up a network of bulbs that stay powered when turned off works also.

If you use Ikea Plugs for an automation they do not report the state. I create a virtual plug for every Ikea Plug and wrote a rule for them. The rule sets the plug, then polls the state and sets the state of the virtual plug. Works well.

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