Canless RGBW lighting?

💡 Lighting
#1

Hi guys,

Any suggestions on canless smart lighting? I was going to swap some of the recessed lighting bulbs in my newly constructed home but found that they're actually the canless led recessed lighting type rather than a bulb in canned socket.

Are there any zigbee RGBW lights that work well with hubitat? The holes in the ceiling are about 4" or so.

I'd prefer zigbee since most of my network is zigbee. But if there's a better zwave or wifi solution that's ok too.

Thanks!

#2

Are these the type of thing you are looking for:
https://www.amazon.com/BENEXMART-Zigbee-Downlight-Contorl-Directly/dp/B08QHLNV8C

They are ZigBee 3.0 so SHOULD work fine... But they also mention Tuya... My experience with Tuya ZigBee devices has been mixed.

2 Likes
#3

Does that require Tuya hub then?

#4

It should not. Tuya uses the ZigBee basis but then tends to tweak it from there and sometimes it is expected, sometimes it uses "their" specific codes but can be worked out, and sometimes they seem to ignore expected stuff. That is the oddity with Tuya ZigBee.
My experience so far:
I have one device that worked readily and was easy to get data from.
One device that SPEWS data (always get warnings from the hub about it) but ignores any commands to reduce the rate. It mostly uses normal ZigBee response for the data but some was using their methods and needed to be figured out.

So for the canless lights? No, you should not need their hub. But... They might work perfectly with Hubitat or they might have some oddities. No idea until someone tries them.

That is why I was asking more if that was the type of device you are looking for to make sure I had the right general idea. :grinning:

EDIT:
I just looked at them again and looked at the reviews. One person said they got it and it worked with Hubitat's built-in RGBW driver. Another review thinks they should not be legal in the US... But they are supposedly UL listed. :man_shrugging:

2nd EDIT:
As an alternative I found a Sylvania light that might work... More expensive but arrives quick:
https://www.amazon.com/SYLVANIA-Recessed-Lighting-Changing-Dimmable/dp/B0196M601A/ref=mp_s_a_1_10?crid=H8LQF2FM65GE&keywords=zigbee+can+light&qid=1662693108&sprefix=zigbee+can+light%2Caps%2C118&sr=8-10

1 Like
#5

Actually the manufacturer appears to be playing word games. They answered “yes” to a question “are they UL compliant?” But they said “no” when another customer asked if they are UL listed. Both questions were asked around the same time on the Amazon product page.

#6

Ya the first one you posted is pretty close to what's currently installed. The Sylvania look like they're made to adapt to a "can" installation.

My lights only have a shallow junction box inside the ceiling. Nothing like the full size "can lights".

#7

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#8

That IS pretty shallow. Not sure if even the first ones would fit since they appeared to have a control box on the back...

Not sure what to recommend otherwise but if you find something I am sure other will want to know so make sure to post about it.

#9

I'm in the same predicament with the same setup. I have a number of those style lights around the house. Only options I've come up with are the wafer style (like the Tuya ones above) or replacing the junction box with a retrofit can. The secondary problem with the Tuya lights is that they don't have a connector. From what I've seen it just two wires hanging off for power. You can write nut them to your existing 120v but that connection is supposed to be inside a junction box.

#10

I think the existing junction box in my ceiling should suffice though? As long as the light can fit inside. It's currently just connected by wire nuts to the line wires.

#11

No, since most of the canless options used tabs to hold themselves against the drywall face of the ceiling. That won't work with the existing junction box in place. You would need a junction enclosure up in the ceiling with the existing junction box removed to install the light.

#12

It looks like Gledopto also makes a product. I'm not sure if it would fit in my ceiling without removing the existing junction box though. I've used gledopto's other LED strip controllers and been happy with them.

https://www.amazon.com/GLEDOPTO-Downlight-Compatible-SmartThings-Waterproof/dp/B092J9TBTD/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2DFSRFQ49NQMR&keywords=%2Bzigbee+recessed+light+rgbcct&qid=1662955484&s=hi&sprefix=zigbee+recessed+light+rgbcct%2Ctools%2C188&sr=1-4&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

#13

Ah ic. I don't have access to the space above where these are mounted so I'm hoping the junction boxes just unscrew and drop down through the existing hole..

I've seen some of the WiFi solutions that include a little rectangular junction box for the wiring connections. Then the light itself mounts directly to the drywall like you described. Haven't found a good rgbw ZigBee one yet though

JULLISON 4" LED Smart Slim Recessed Pot Light, WiFi APP & Voice Control, 120VAC, 9W, 600LM, RGB + 2700K-6000K, ETL & FCC & IC Rated, Wet Location, Compatible with Alexa/Google Home, White - 4 Packs Amazon.com

#14

Has anyone found a Wifi product with a hubitat integration that works well? The WiFi wafer rgb lights with an attached junction box seems like the easiest install.

The only ZigBee options I've found are the gledopto and benexmart/zemismart ones. I think I can make them work by removing the existing junction box to let the lights mount to the ceiling and using a smaller junction box for the wire connections.

Gledopto is on Amazon but kinda pricey. Zemismart I think has to ship from china?

It sucks that there's such limited ZigBee options but endless WiFi products with crappy stand alone apps.

#15

I'm giving some of these a try now. They were able to pair with hubitat okay after a couple tries. Finally got them working with the "generic zigbee RGBW driver". The "advanced zigbee RGW" wouldn't let them turn off completely for some reason.

I'll hopefully get them installed later this week. Going to just pull the existing junction/mounting box down and out to make room for the lights and use a small plastic junction box to connect to the lights. (I'll just clip off the socket adapter on the lights).

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09XCBBGLN?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

1 Like
#16

I decided to try out the BENEXMART and the Sylvania ones I linked above. I do not think EITHER of these would work for you as they are both pretty deep.
Here is a little summary:
Hardware

  • BENEXMART is ~2 1/2" deep and has 2 bare wires for power. It has spring clips like the one you linked. Large diffuser that is right to the facing of the light.
  • Sylvania is ~4"(!) deep and has a retrofit power plug like the one you just linked, but the retaining wires are a much larger V style. Smaller, recessed diffuser.

Driver

  • BENEXMART reacted very badly to the Advanced driver, while I was trying the Beta, so bad I thought it was a bug. Turns out some devices just do not work well with the Advanced driver. Once I switched to the normal Generic it has worked just fine.
  • Sylvania worked just fine with EITHER driver.

Lighting

  • BENEXMART did... OK for lighting. It handled the whole color range and responded quickly, even for just white with color temperatures. When doing the white it did not seem to get "warm" white very well, it still seemed to have a lot of blue to it. The diffuser made the light seem more spread out and it would work better for a notification purposes than the Sylvania I think.
  • Sylvania seemed to be brighter (subjective, and blinding myself) and was better with the color control, both for RGB and CT. It was a slightly more directional light due to the recessed diffuser.
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#17

Ah cool. Thanks for trying those out!

I'm pretty sure the benexmart is a pretty similar design to the kurvia ones I'm trying so either would work. I would've gone with benexmart since zemismart is at least a little more well known brand, but even on amazon I think all the benexmart products ship from china and were over a month to get here to Hawaii with a shipping charge. The Kurvia got here in a couple days with free shipping and free amazon returns if needed.

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#18

Update:

I managed to get one junction box out of the way. It was just attached to a bar since it was sitting between two joists. There was enough room to just push it off to the side and remove the wiring (large tabs on the side prevented me from dropping it out of the ceiling like I planned). The kurvia light mounted perfectly once it was just drywall around the hole.

The other junction box is more difficult. I think it sits next to a joist so it's probably nailed in place and I have no way of removing it without tearing open the ceiling. Since it's just a plastic box, I'm thinking about just taking my Dremel to it and hacking it up in place until the mounting tabs break off. The down side is I can't ever convert back if we ever move or something.

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