I included a ZEN17 on my C8 a couple hours ago.
No problem. Included normally.
I included another ZEN17 yesterday.
Again, no problem.
Maybe your antenna is broken. Just kidding. 
Actually I did think of that all kidding aside. Not so much an antenna problem but a hardware issue, maybe antenna, maybe something else. This is my second C8. Same issue. C7 - no problem. C8 - problem, Doesn't take a whole lot of process of elimination to identify the change that led to the problem showing up. But the fact that it works for some people with a C8 and not others means it's probably a more subtle problem, not unlike the zigbee issues that have been plaguing some of us for well over a month. There do seem to be some common indicators among a couple of us - zooz devices and ring devices. And in my case, both ring and zooz devices. Coincidence? Maybe so. But my guess is that some z-wave devices respond differently to the 800-series chipset -- or the firmware running on the C8 - and something funky happens. Maybe it isn't even the devices that are exhibiting the issue - could be something else generating excessive traffic or whatever. Just guesses, no real evidence to support the theory.
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I think it’s only us that migrated. Possibly migrated from C5->C7->C8. 
Looking at notes for SDK releases, it may be the C8 is hitting a known SDK bug when meshes have lots of certain chatty devices.
Wish we could help troubleshoot this. I’m sure @bcopeland is looking into it. But right now, I’m just glad what I have is mostly stable, even if I can’t include anything new.
I technically did a C7-C8 and then a C8-C8.
I have also noticed some devices in the far corner of the house, which were always working with the C7 but were definitely on the edge, have direct routes at 100kbps without many change routes on the C8 but are unreliable. The devices in question include the above mentioned Zooz relay, but also (and frankly pretty critical) dome water valve and an ecolink contact sensor. The C8 is in the same spot as the C7. I was never able to exclude and re-include the zooz on the C8 but at one point I was able to exclude the water valve from the C8 and re-include it. Today I gave up on trying to make them talk to the C8 and tried to exclude both the ecolink and the dome. No luck on the C8. Excluded instantly on the C7 and re-included just fine.
Data point though - the original C7 and the migrated C8 are in exactly the same position in the house. So at one point these sensors were all talking to the C7 in the same location as the C8, mostly through repeaters. Once they migrated to the C8 they were in the same position but with direct routes - just not reliable. The room they're in also has the house's 200 amp panel and all of the network gear - PoE switches, a router, NVRs, etc. So there's a lot of RFI in there for sure. The C7 I moved them all to is a secondary C7 in that room - I just activated its z-wave radio. So if there is interference or the signal is marginal I'm not surprised they included on this new C7. What does surprise me is they broke during migration to the C8.
Not all of the z-wave sensors that have been causing me grief are in the same room - but it makes me wonder if for some reason the fact that all these devices have a direct route to the C8 actually isn't helping. Kind of like a really sensitive radio receiver will pull in a weaker signal, but it's mostly noise. Not an exact analogy but it does make me scratch my head.
Yeah. I’m seeing very spotty connections. I do have another thread going. Pairing with C-8 timing out - #24 by staze But it’s mainly just me talking to myself. Lol.
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I think you need to describe your problems in a lot more detail on that other post... what devices, under what conditions, what model hub, what platform version, etc.
I just had another Ecolink contact sensor drop from my z-wave network. This one came back just by cycling the battery but this is starting to seem like a much more systematic issue. This eco link has been in place for months and months prior to C7 to C8 migration. Never an issue. Now all of the sudden... unreliable. And it's within about 12 feet of the hub, with a repeater close by.
You might want to change the title of this thread if you can - maybe to something like "C8 z-wave device and inclusion falures."
Renamed. And agreed. Honestly, these two theads could be merged (if that’s even an option with this board software).
Not sure what else to do at this point. Like I mentioned, I’m mostly stable. Lights and outlets work. Door locks are hit and miss. Honest just found my front door never relocked today (or yesterday).
Contact sensors are mostly unreliable (but I’m not heavily using them atm) (this is why front door isn’t relockkng since it isn’t reliably seeing the contact sensor close). This feels a lot like the resolved issue in 7.19 SDK that talks about inclusion failures with 20+ FLiRS devices. Not sure I have that many, but it’s close.
Just had an eco link contact sensor get stuck on "open" - grrr.
yup. my ring sensors keep getting stuck. =/
just tried a repair on a whim... and it ended up making a bunch of nodes as failed. Seems like there's a routing issue going on. =/ It failed all 3 of my locks, and several plug in devices.
I do see there's a known issue with z-wave SDKs (not sure what SDK the C-8 is using): "In small networks Assign Return Routes will only generate direct range or
one-hop routes even though multi-hop routes are possible."
Even 7.19.2 release notes from 5 days ago shows that as an issue. But do notice something is fixed in 7.19.2 that may be applicable?
"Not possible to migrate NVM3 files from a 700 based system to a 800 system. Especially important for gateways when replacing a 700 with a 800." Not sure this was an issue. =/
Way beyond my pay grade
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full zwave repair is never a good idea.. it overwelms your mesh and the hub.
recommend you shutdown the hub, remove [power from the hub. wait 30 secs.
then plug back in..
give it 10 minutes to rebuid your zwave routes.. then goto the page and for ones not working try the repair on a device by device basis..
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can try that. and yes, I realize a full repair isn't a good idea. this doesn't feel like that though...
anywho, will let things stabilize.
FWIW I have done a full repair on my C8 twice now, usually passes all nodes and does not cause any issues. I have 40-50 devices. Did one when first migrated, and then another time I was just trying to see if anything would pick up more neighbors.
Ironically one of the things Bobby suggested I do when I first reported my C8 z-wave issues is… a full repair! I had always heard what you did and he clarified a bit. First a full repair does put a strain on the mesh. And second it is not as efficient as the nightly routines the hub runs. So they generally don’t recommend it but in some cases it is appropriate.
However it did not do anything for my C8 z-wave issues. Putting the devices back on a C7 was the way I got them working.
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mesh seemed stable, did repairs on the individual items that previously got marked as failed. One needed an unplug/replug, one was just unplugged (mistake from this weekend), the rest repaired fine other than my locks, which, shouldn't have tried to repair anyway since they're battery powered (Yale 700 series locks).
Interestingly routing still missing from stuff that repaired... also interesting is this one:
Looks like some type of either GUI bug, or there's a routing loop... also I thought hop counts over 4 were not allowed...
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Have you noticed any tendency for things to break overnight? I think I'm starting to see a pattern where z-wave devices are working fine and then the next morning not so much. There are some nightly processes that zwave does... no sure what. But for the last couple of days my ring keypads have been working fine. Woke up this morning and sure enough one of them was offline. Interestingly enough it came back on its own. But the same thing happened with that contact sensor. Was working fine one day, next morning not so much.
Everything worked fine on the C7, was stable for months and months. Since the C8 migration z-wave has been a mess. It has to be something the C8 is doing or not doing or issues with the 800 series firmware or something similar.
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Another example of C8 failure...
An eco link contact sensor that has been operative for two years, Suddenly stopped responding yesterday morning at 10am. Failed to exclude in place, maybe 20 feet from hub. Finally excludes 10 feet from hub. Won't include.
Added it to the C7 - boom includes no problem and is completely responsive. And that C7 is clear on the other side of the house.
Previously the hub showed this device connected to the C8 at 100kbps with neighbors and no reroutes and has been working for 6 weeks on the C8.
And yet another example of a C8 z-wave issue.
I fired up a separate C8 - nothing on it at all. Did a migration of my C7 with the three or four devices the C8 doesn't like. Did a repair. Mesh looks fine, devices are responsive. Tried to use it to exclude the eco link contact sensor - failed to exclude about 6 feet from hub.
Fired up a C7, turned on the z-wave radio, was able to instantly exclude the eco link.
So... not a mesh issue, not a device issue, what's left but a C8 issue.
Believe there is a sort of mini-repair that happens every other night on the Zwave mesh where it gathers routing info. Guessing that’s what is causing issues.
My Zwave mesh collapsed last night, and required a shutdown, power off, wait a minute, power on to restore. Could be related to the repair earlier in the day, but not sure.
Not sure what else to do at this point other than wait. I do recall having some issues a little like this early when I had my c7 (when it came out). There was a Zwave firmware update that fixed all of the issues I had. Hopefully we see something like that on the C-8…
