C7 Underwhelming Perfomance

nibyak · June 21, 2022, 4:15pm

When I have multiple z-wave lights to turn on or off, I put them in a group, then I set metering for the group. This puts a user selectable delay in milli seconds, between each light in the group. I use a high number of 800 milliseconds but many others use a much smaller number. But it keeps the mesh from flooding with messages and works great for what I’m doing.

ChrisP · June 21, 2022, 4:28pm

Can you clarify, how many physical devices (Zwave and/or Zigbee) do you have? I'm reading it as 30 physical and 100 virtual devices, but not entirely sure.

brad5 · June 21, 2022, 4:42pm

I use 100ms...

csteele · June 21, 2022, 5:16pm

I have, on one hub, 28 zwave; 27 zigbee; 77 total devices
another hub has, 57 zwave; 0 zigbee; 107 total devices
my third hub has, 34 zwave; 0 zigbee; 51 total devices

In other words, each of my hubs are in your ballpark from a number of devices standpoint. My 4th hub, which has zero Zwave or Zigbee yet receives Events from most of the devices on the 3 other hubs has, 177 total devices.

I don't have a "Whole House wake and sleep routine" like you do, if I interpret correctly. I don't have any slow downs on any of the 4 hubs. In other words, it's not a requirement to be slow. I do make "announcements" (mostly sound clips: elephant trumpeting when the Garage Door opens, for example,) and get a hundred or more Notifications per day as perimeter doors and windows get opened. Again, I'm saying if your experience was normal, I'd have 4 hubs behaving that way instead of zero.

I tap into logs which run 24x7 because I forget to ^c out, but I'm seeing Events at a 1:3 second average... (One event every 3 seconds, and that's a cumulative log, every Event from any of the 4 hubs goes into one log.)

10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: uptime, value: 46329]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: formattedUptime, value: 0d,12h,52m,9s]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: freeMemory, value: 365592]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: temperature, value: 107.6]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: temperatureF, value: 107.6 ¬∞F]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: cpuPct, value: 0.5]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: cpu5Min, value: 0.02]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: temperatureC, value: 42.0 ¬∞C]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: lastUpdated, value: 1655832106698]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SYSTEM COMMAND: [name: appHealth, value: 1655832104034]
10:21:40 AM  ZeeRadioLower --> Server Hub SYSTEM COMMAND: [name: appHealth, value: 1655832113031]
10:21:41 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SYSTEM COMMAND: [name: appHealth, value: 1655832116031]
10:21:58 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 845, displayName: MultiSensor6A (officeDesk), name: motion, value: inactive]
10:22:08 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 1384, displayName: MultiSensor6X (Kids), name: temperature, value: 84.0]
10:22:09 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 212, displayName: LaundryRoomWasher, name: power, value: 0.000]
10:22:10 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 1384, displayName: MultiSensor6X (Kids), name: battery, value: 16]
10:22:10 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 1384, displayName: MultiSensor6X (Kids), name: battery, value: 1]
10:22:10 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 212, displayName: LaundryRoomWasher, name: power, value: 1.208]
10:22:32 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SYSTEM COMMAND: [name: appHealth, value: 1655832164034]
10:22:33 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 759, displayName: Multisensor6H (masterBath sink), name: temperature, value: 78.6]
10:22:38 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 749, displayName: MultiSensor6E (upperBath wc), name: temperature, value: 77.8]
10:22:38 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 2038, displayName: MultiSenZigbAA (Front EntryWay), name: humidity, value: 62]
10:22:38 AM  Server Hub --> ZeeRadioLower SENDING: [deviceId: 1250, displayName: MultiSenZigbAA (Front EntryWay), name: humidity, value: 62]
10:22:40 AM  ZeeRadioLower --> Server Hub SYSTEM COMMAND: [name: appHealth, value: 1655832173031]
10:22:41 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SYSTEM COMMAND: [name: appHealth, value: 1655832176031]

25 events, 70 seconds, 2,8 seconds/event, and that's the most recent 70 seconds, so "randomly" selected.

aaiyar · June 21, 2022, 5:25pm

Like @csteele, I have multiple hubs:

z-wave: 60 devices (177 total)
zigbee: 40 devices (126 total)

I haven't experienced the slowdowns etc that you have described. I would recommend posting your z-wave details page. Also, non-responsive LAN and cloud integrations can be very hard on the hub.

goldbond1 · June 21, 2022, 5:27pm

Thanks for quick replies.

To answer a few questions:

On latest firmware: 2.3.2.128
I don't even have an option to update Zwave drivers per article:
C7 2.3.1 and Z-Wave Firmware 7.17.1

zwave1643×349 43.5 KB
I wouldn't want to use multiple hubs. (preferably)
Haven't looked at groupings and delays.
~95 total zwave nodes listed. These are wall plugs, door/window sensors, and my switches count was low...

Working on rest and trying to find zwave firmware update option..

csteele · June 21, 2022, 5:29pm

Not having the button means you've pressed it before, it did the upgrade, nothing to do again... yet

aaiyar · June 21, 2022, 5:32pm

This means the update is done (whoops @csteele got there first!)

Could you post this full page (if need be in section)? Ghost devices will kill a mesh.

Also, what LAN/cloud integrations are you using?

goldbond1 · June 21, 2022, 5:40pm

LAN/Cloud? I don't have any cloud integration and ZWAVE doesn't leverage any wifi correct? I do have Zigbee and wifi products as well. But, my network is business grade. PFSENSE, AP's..

I have had an ongoing fight with a couple of switches that drop off periodically. I pull the breaker and put back in and they reconnect. A friend ran diagnostics for rogue devices and was pretty clear in logs.

Working on rest of info.

aaiyar · June 21, 2022, 5:42pm

These would be LAN (and possibly cloud) integrations. Chromecast is a cloud-dependent integration.

Knowing what runs on your hub is kind of essential to figure out what is slowing things down. Most likely, it is something z-wave, but it could be a side-effect of some other integration .....

It would also be useful for you to check the app stats and device stats - which would be quick way to determine if there's a runaway app or device.

csteele · June 21, 2022, 5:57pm

All of mine are in the same range... except 1. It shows 2.2% for device because I have a LED strip that randomly changes color, randomly between 4-11 seconds. It runs 24x7x365 for NO USEFUL reason.. I just like it.

JohnRob · June 21, 2022, 8:02pm

FYI nearly every browser has a page capture app that will capture the WHOLE screen, including that which is not on the screen. In Firefox its called "Fireshot"

bobbyD · June 21, 2022, 8:16pm

While 95 devices are not even a half of the maximum allowed devices per Z-Wave controller, they can easily overwhelm any controller if devices are left to generate events uncontrollably. I would make sure that power reporting and S0/S2 encrypted devices are kept at minimum. Those are the two biggest Z-wave bandwidth hogs that would have the effect on your hub that you described.

silverton38 · June 23, 2022, 7:44pm

Z-wave Z-wave Z-wave ---- that is the problem. I have houses with so many Zigbee devices or Lutron Caseta devices and the hub purrs. If I put in 20 Z-wave devices the hub crawls. Z-wave kills the hub and should be only reserved for items that you can not find in Zigbee.

mike.maxwell · June 23, 2022, 7:57pm

actually it isn't, its local.

aaiyar · June 23, 2022, 8:10pm

@mike.maxwell

Sorry, I meant announcing using Google/Chromecast was cloud dependent.

My bad.

lcw731 · June 23, 2022, 9:00pm

Zigbee gives me far more issues than zwave. To the point i'm down to just a few Innr bulbs, and one zigbee motion sensor thats about to be replaced by a zwave motion sensor. Once I figured out a couple issues with ghosts and applied some communuty best practices I never have to mess with my zwave anymore unless im adding devices.

My point is everyone has their own experiences. As with everything else in this arena your mileage may vary. I think people that start using alot of one off and different devices (in any standard) are going to be more likely to have isses than those who build areound a few specific manufacturers.

mavrrick58 · June 24, 2022, 12:42am

I am in the same boat as @lcw731. I have over 118 devices, 41 of which are zwave, 20 are zigbee, and the rest are a combination of virtual, wifi, and devices feed from node-red. The zwave devices work pretty darn flawlessly. You do have to be careful of ghosts and adress them quickly, but they all work great. The big thing with either zigbee or zwave is to make sure you build a good mesh.

I think this is a good point. Most of my stuff is Ring Gen 2 gear and Zooz gear.

Building a good mesh on either technology will make things alot better.

aaiyar · June 24, 2022, 2:12am

Respectfully, I disagree. I have 60 z-wave devices, of which 30 are not z-wave+. 27 of these are 300-series and 3 are 100-series.

I have no issue with my z-wave mesh. It is fast and responsive.

I don't have any issue with either of my two zigbee meshes either, one of which has about 40 devices and the other has about 80.

It comes down to how carefully a mesh is designed, how chatty the devices are, and the quality of repeaters/routers.

erktrek · June 24, 2022, 11:18am

Every environment is different - so many factors to consider. Here are some fun ones based on my experiences:

User created rules potentially conflicting or having bugs or unanticipated consequences.
Types of devices used can impact the mesh including faulty or older specd devices.
Placement of devices and hub - too spread out or in a signal unfriendly area (like a metal electrical box) and signal struggles to get through causing routing errors, sporadic functioning / potential delays and battery drain.
Custom apps/drivers chewing up hub resources or bugs impacting device operations.
Local area network / Firewall settings blocking certain functions including cloud services,
Device firmware issues.
Quirkiness of signal propagation due to layout and types of building materials at the location.
Signal Interference from other sources - WiFi router etc.
Temperature in area around hub and devices.
Stable and proper power for hub / devices - easy to overload certain smart switches / plugs if not careful (always check the specs!), Power backups for hubs etc.
The per spec mesh routing rules inherent to the protocol and chipsets. Z-Wave seems to have the most weirdness here BUT due to enforced spec requirements ZW devices are usually more compatible than Zigbee.

It's a hard lesson that there is a lot of trial and error involved in implementing a moderate to large personalized solution. The above is true for ANY home automation solution not just HE though.