C7 Underwhelming Perfomance

goldbond1 · June 21, 2022, 4:04pm

2 part question:

I have over 30 light switches, (mostly zwave) fans and 131 total devices connected to my HE. I have an away and night routine that is designed to turn on 12 lights, activate 2 sirens, announce through google, and send a message to 2 devices. HE seems to die when this routine kicks off. In fact, I came home to have an announce on google kick off likely 15 min after the away was triggered accidentally. Some lights were still on after trying to hit a turn off all. (which also pukes often) Is this expected behavior and why?
Assuming the answer is "yes, this is expected behavior". When can we expect a faster base or virtualized HE? What else can I do short of having to reduce number of devices actioned. (which defeats the purpose..)

neonturbo · June 21, 2022, 4:13pm

No this isn't the expected behavior.

Could you please post your Zwave Details page (the whole thing). It may take a couple screenshots, but that is OK.

What Hubitat Firmware are you on, the latest is 2.3.2.xxx

Did you do the Zwave firmware update (separate from the Hub update)?

Edit: this shows how to check the Zwave firmware for being up to date. C7 2.3.1 and Z-Wave Firmware 7.17.1

bertabcd1234 · June 21, 2022, 4:15pm

[EDIT: So, most of this was also written by @neonturbo while I was typing. The last link is new and may still be helpful if you don't want to re-read the same advice. ]

A few things to consider:

Have you updated the Z-Wave radio firmware to 17.7.1? This addresses a specific issue that can cause problems on large/chatty networks, but many users have reported improvements after updating. It has been available since platform 2.3.1 but is optional and must be done manually, separate from this update. See this post: C7 2.3.1 and Z-Wave Firmware 7.17.1
Are you on platform 2.3.2? There were additional improvements that are supposed to make metering unnecessary, though the above update (which requires at least 2.3.1) has also been helpful for many.
Any "ghosts", failed pairings, massive numbers of unnecessary S0 devices, or other problems in your Settings > Z-Wave Details table? If you're not sure, post a copy here and someone can help you look through it.

This document may also be helpful:

https://docs.hubitat.com/index.php?title=How_to_Troubleshoot_Z-Wave

nibyak · June 21, 2022, 4:15pm

When I have multiple z-wave lights to turn on or off, I put them in a group, then I set metering for the group. This puts a user selectable delay in milli seconds, between each light in the group. I use a high number of 800 milliseconds but many others use a much smaller number. But it keeps the mesh from flooding with messages and works great for what I’m doing.

ChrisP · June 21, 2022, 4:28pm

Can you clarify, how many physical devices (Zwave and/or Zigbee) do you have? I'm reading it as 30 physical and 100 virtual devices, but not entirely sure.

brad5 · June 21, 2022, 4:42pm

I use 100ms...

csteele · June 21, 2022, 5:16pm

I have, on one hub, 28 zwave; 27 zigbee; 77 total devices
another hub has, 57 zwave; 0 zigbee; 107 total devices
my third hub has, 34 zwave; 0 zigbee; 51 total devices

In other words, each of my hubs are in your ballpark from a number of devices standpoint. My 4th hub, which has zero Zwave or Zigbee yet receives Events from most of the devices on the 3 other hubs has, 177 total devices.

I don't have a "Whole House wake and sleep routine" like you do, if I interpret correctly. I don't have any slow downs on any of the 4 hubs. In other words, it's not a requirement to be slow. I do make "announcements" (mostly sound clips: elephant trumpeting when the Garage Door opens, for example,) and get a hundred or more Notifications per day as perimeter doors and windows get opened. Again, I'm saying if your experience was normal, I'd have 4 hubs behaving that way instead of zero.

I tap into logs which run 24x7 because I forget to ^c out, but I'm seeing Events at a 1:3 second average... (One event every 3 seconds, and that's a cumulative log, every Event from any of the 4 hubs goes into one log.)

10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: uptime, value: 46329]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: formattedUptime, value: 0d,12h,52m,9s]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: freeMemory, value: 365592]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: temperature, value: 107.6]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: temperatureF, value: 107.6 ¬∞F]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: cpuPct, value: 0.5]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: cpu5Min, value: 0.02]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: temperatureC, value: 42.0 ¬∞C]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 236, displayName: Collected Info sixthhubitat, name: lastUpdated, value: 1655832106698]
10:21:32 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SYSTEM COMMAND: [name: appHealth, value: 1655832104034]
10:21:40 AM  ZeeRadioLower --> Server Hub SYSTEM COMMAND: [name: appHealth, value: 1655832113031]
10:21:41 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SYSTEM COMMAND: [name: appHealth, value: 1655832116031]
10:21:58 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 845, displayName: MultiSensor6A (officeDesk), name: motion, value: inactive]
10:22:08 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 1384, displayName: MultiSensor6X (Kids), name: temperature, value: 84.0]
10:22:09 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 212, displayName: LaundryRoomWasher, name: power, value: 0.000]
10:22:10 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 1384, displayName: MultiSensor6X (Kids), name: battery, value: 16]
10:22:10 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 1384, displayName: MultiSensor6X (Kids), name: battery, value: 1]
10:22:10 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 212, displayName: LaundryRoomWasher, name: power, value: 1.208]
10:22:32 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SYSTEM COMMAND: [name: appHealth, value: 1655832164034]
10:22:33 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 759, displayName: Multisensor6H (masterBath sink), name: temperature, value: 78.6]
10:22:38 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 749, displayName: MultiSensor6E (upperBath wc), name: temperature, value: 77.8]
10:22:38 AM  ZeeRadioUpper --> Server Hub SENDING: [deviceId: 2038, displayName: MultiSenZigbAA (Front EntryWay), name: humidity, value: 62]
10:22:38 AM  Server Hub --> ZeeRadioLower SENDING: [deviceId: 1250, displayName: MultiSenZigbAA (Front EntryWay), name: humidity, value: 62]
10:22:40 AM  ZeeRadioLower --> Server Hub SYSTEM COMMAND: [name: appHealth, value: 1655832173031]
10:22:41 AM  ZeeSixth --> Server Hub SYSTEM COMMAND: [name: appHealth, value: 1655832176031]

25 events, 70 seconds, 2,8 seconds/event, and that's the most recent 70 seconds, so "randomly" selected.

aaiyar · June 21, 2022, 5:25pm

Like @csteele, I have multiple hubs:

z-wave: 60 devices (177 total)
zigbee: 40 devices (126 total)

I haven't experienced the slowdowns etc that you have described. I would recommend posting your z-wave details page. Also, non-responsive LAN and cloud integrations can be very hard on the hub.

goldbond1 · June 21, 2022, 5:27pm

Thanks for quick replies.

To answer a few questions:

On latest firmware: 2.3.2.128
I don't even have an option to update Zwave drivers per article:
C7 2.3.1 and Z-Wave Firmware 7.17.1

zwave1643×349 43.5 KB
I wouldn't want to use multiple hubs. (preferably)
Haven't looked at groupings and delays.
~95 total zwave nodes listed. These are wall plugs, door/window sensors, and my switches count was low...

Working on rest and trying to find zwave firmware update option..

csteele · June 21, 2022, 5:29pm

Not having the button means you've pressed it before, it did the upgrade, nothing to do again... yet

aaiyar · June 21, 2022, 5:32pm

This means the update is done (whoops @csteele got there first!)

Could you post this full page (if need be in section)? Ghost devices will kill a mesh.

Also, what LAN/cloud integrations are you using?

goldbond1 · June 21, 2022, 5:40pm

LAN/Cloud? I don't have any cloud integration and ZWAVE doesn't leverage any wifi correct? I do have Zigbee and wifi products as well. But, my network is business grade. PFSENSE, AP's..

I have had an ongoing fight with a couple of switches that drop off periodically. I pull the breaker and put back in and they reconnect. A friend ran diagnostics for rogue devices and was pretty clear in logs.

Working on rest of info.

aaiyar · June 21, 2022, 5:42pm

These would be LAN (and possibly cloud) integrations. Chromecast is a cloud-dependent integration.

Knowing what runs on your hub is kind of essential to figure out what is slowing things down. Most likely, it is something z-wave, but it could be a side-effect of some other integration .....

It would also be useful for you to check the app stats and device stats - which would be quick way to determine if there's a runaway app or device.

csteele · June 21, 2022, 5:57pm

All of mine are in the same range... except 1. It shows 2.2% for device because I have a LED strip that randomly changes color, randomly between 4-11 seconds. It runs 24x7x365 for NO USEFUL reason.. I just like it.

JohnRob · June 21, 2022, 8:02pm

FYI nearly every browser has a page capture app that will capture the WHOLE screen, including that which is not on the screen. In Firefox its called "Fireshot"

bobbyD · June 21, 2022, 8:16pm

While 95 devices are not even a half of the maximum allowed devices per Z-Wave controller, they can easily overwhelm any controller if devices are left to generate events uncontrollably. I would make sure that power reporting and S0/S2 encrypted devices are kept at minimum. Those are the two biggest Z-wave bandwidth hogs that would have the effect on your hub that you described.

silverton38 · June 23, 2022, 7:44pm

Z-wave Z-wave Z-wave ---- that is the problem. I have houses with so many Zigbee devices or Lutron Caseta devices and the hub purrs. If I put in 20 Z-wave devices the hub crawls. Z-wave kills the hub and should be only reserved for items that you can not find in Zigbee.

mike.maxwell · June 23, 2022, 7:57pm

actually it isn't, its local.

aaiyar · June 23, 2022, 8:10pm

@mike.maxwell

Sorry, I meant announcing using Google/Chromecast was cloud dependent.

My bad.

lcw731 · June 23, 2022, 9:00pm

Zigbee gives me far more issues than zwave. To the point i'm down to just a few Innr bulbs, and one zigbee motion sensor thats about to be replaced by a zwave motion sensor. Once I figured out a couple issues with ghosts and applied some communuty best practices I never have to mess with my zwave anymore unless im adding devices.

My point is everyone has their own experiences. As with everything else in this arena your mileage may vary. I think people that start using alot of one off and different devices (in any standard) are going to be more likely to have isses than those who build areound a few specific manufacturers.