I replaced every light bulb inside (and outside) of the house with these SengLED color smart bulbs:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073ZBYXKQ/
They are one of the few bulbs that are not repeaters which can have a nasty affect on your mesh.
1 Like
I have all smart switches (Zigbee and Z-wave) for outside, downstairs hallway, half bath, and garage lights, everywhere else ilI have color bulbs. Sylvania Smart+ for all recessed lights and a mix of Hue and Sylvania for the other 80 or so lights. I definitely recommend against the Sylvania A19 bulbs mostly because they run very hot and donāt have the lifespan of Hue. Hue are definitely worth the money IMO for A19 bulbs and I will transition to them as the Sylvanias die. I love the recessed Sylvania color lights though; not a single failure in over 2 years and very nice color and CT. I also have a few of the Sylvania HO rgbw downlights in the kitchen that the wife loves.
Thanks for the information and build outs. A few people have commented on bulbs being bad repeaters on the network. Can anyone explain on this a little @Ken_Fraleigh and @billmeek . I thought the more devices allow for a stronger signal for the devices?
This is definitely true of a lot of older bulbs especially. I havenāt seen this problem with the newer Sylvania bulbs that have a completely different SOC even though they have the same model number.
This gives more paths back to the hub , but once a command is lost, itās not going to get to the target.
I asked a similar question a little over a year ago:
@Eric.C.Miller So what did you get?
I just switched from Leviton Z-Wave switches to Radio RA2 and I love it. The speed and reliability is fantastic. I love 
the keypads to give me physical control of an entire room or house from one location. Picos are also very nice since they can go in the wall to create a fake three way, and anywhere else by themselves, or the stands Lutron sells (not the cheep option, but good things rarely are.
I went with all Lutron Caseta for the lighting controls - dimmers, switches, and remotes (Picos). All the three-ways are setup with a Pico directly associated with the dimmer or switch. That way the basic lighting is self-contained (all Lutron). I have a variety of door/window sensors - mostly SmartThings and Sensative Strips. I variety of motion sensors, almost all Centralite (under several brand labels) and Nyce. Everspring and SmartThings water sensors. Google Home displays or speakers in almost every room. Sonos in most rooms as well as some locations outdoors.
Had I really understood how good the Lutron stuff was, I might have gone for RA2. Initially the price for Caseta put me off a bit but as I got more experience with it, and found out how solid it was, the price really became secondary. It took about a year to replace all the switches and dimmers - the last box (destined for the master bath) is sitting in the kitchen now - having arrived via UPS last week.
1 Like
While you might already know much of this, I'm going to cover it anyway for completeness and not assume any level of knowledge. This is sort of a lower lever explanation. There are a lot of details left out.
A mesh network allows devices to have multiple routes to the hub. In the basic form (assuming that you are not attempting to use anything other than a single Hubitat) you only have one controller. End Devices are the items (i.e. sensors) that communicate with the controller to perform actions or provide data.
Coordinator (hub) ---> End Device (sensor)
In the simple example above, the direction of the arrow only means the the end device is making a single connection. The end device could doing bi-directional communication with the coordinator. An example of this would be a smartbulb that accepts input from the hub to change it state and also can report back when that change is completed such as the light being on. Some end devices only report data and don't normally receive (i.e. button).
Routers are devices that can either be routers only (repeaters) or both an end device and function as a router. What the router does is pass on information to extend the the reach of the hub. A simplified example:
Coordinator <---> Router ---> End Device
This allows either a device with a weaker signal to have a better signal strength or extend the reach beyond what the radios in the coordinator and end device would allow. You can reach even further with multiple routers:
Controller <---> Router <---> Router ---> End Device
Where the mesh comes into play is redundancy. Rather than a router only talking to the coordinator or a specific router, all routers attempt to have a connection to each other and the coordinator. There are limits to the number of routers the coordinator and routers can work with at any given time. Think of the connections between routers like streets in a city. If you need to go to a specific location and the street is blocked (unavailable), you simply use another street to go around it.
You can see some very basic Zigbee information by loading this webpage:
http://<YOUR_HUBITAT_IP_ADDRESS>/hub/zigbee/getChildAndRouteInfo
Here is an image of my mesh at one point in time after just adding some routers and taking one router offline that gives a more complete picture:
So this gets us to why light bulbs are bad choices for routers. Light bulbs are devices designed to be switched off. If you turn a lightbulb off (by removing power from the bulb) and it is acting as a router, you are essentially breaking the mesh and forcing any end device that's using that bulb as it's router to find a new connection. The self-healing nature of a mesh is not immediate. It can take some time for an end device to select a new router. Also remember that a router is participating in a mesh where other routers remember it and expect to be able to use it to pass traffic. In our street example, image trying to navigate when streets are randomly opened and closed throughout the day.
Another issue is that some bulbs (i.e. GE link) were known for dropping off of the mesh every few weeks because of firmware issues. Some Zigbee bulbs didn't implement the full Zigbee protocol and caused problems. Other bulbs have a limited buffer size and when flooded with traffic, fail to pass on messages that were supposed to be repeated. These all lead to Zigbee bulbs being devices that can wreak havoc on your mesh.
So basically you should not use Zigbee bulbs that acts as a router unless they are on their own separate network (controller). One of the smartbulb brands that doesn't act as a repeater is the SengLED line and that's why I eventaully replaced all of my smartbulbs with these Sengled Multicolor bulbs:
7 Likes
Great Post Bill!
S.
Thanks Scott. I've only been using Hubitat a few months and have spent a lot of time reading/learning. I had the same question and spent a considerable amount of research time before deciding on dumping a half dozen smartbulbs and replacing them with the SengLEDs. I also bought an Xbee and kept trying (imagine a monkey pounding on the keyboard until it works) until I was able to visualize my mesh providing a better understanding what's happening behinds the scenes.
I enjoy sharing what I learn with others. The problem is that I'm not very good at writing and therefore it takes me awhile to get it organized and composed into a halfway intelligible format. A good writer could probably etch their thoughts into stone tablets faster than I can with a word processor.
3 Likes
FYI: The local best buy had the Sengled multicolor bulbs on sale; 4 bulbs plus the hub for $69. I figured there would be firmware updates for the bulbs (which there are) and it was still the cheapest price Iāve seen for the 4 bulbs, so Iām giving them a shot.
Theyāre updating as I write this, then theyāll be going on my lights HE hub.
@Ken_Fraleigh after i saw that heads up on the best buy sale i went and got a pack. Did you have any issues getting them linked up? When i try and discovering it i am not able to see them.
First, Iāll say that I hooked up the Sengled hub and updated the firmware on the bulbs before I installed them on HE. I then deleted them one at a time from the Sengled hub and discovered them on HE. I waited to long on the first one I tried to join, but cycling the power seemed to get it back to discovery mode. Other than that I believe cycling the power 10 times rapidly resets them. The Sengled hub doesnāt appear to be good for anything else, so make sure to shut it down when youāre done joining to HE. Donāt need the zigbee interference.
@Ken_Fraleigh good thinking on updating the firmware! That bestbuy is a good deal and was thinking of getting another and then trying to sell the Sengled hub online to get some money back. I will try out that same process when I get home to see if that works.
1 Like
You shouldnāt have any problems. Just make sure you download the Sengled app and have your phone on the 2.4GHz wifi. I had to go outside and toggle the wifi on my phone to get it on 2.4. That whole one network name thing.
Brilliant post!
How did you generated that mesh map? Thatās pretty neat. I went to the URL you referred to http://[hub-ip]hub/zigbee/getChildAndRouteInfo but it was just a text file.
Used a USB Xbee and XTCU software on a laptop. See this post:
