Hello, please tag a Hubitat product developer in this if Hubitat would like to double or more the number of Evolution C-8’s sold.
The physical hardware of the Evolution C-8 is impressive and users of other home automation hubs would be interested to integrate it into their systems. For instance, Home Assistant allows TCP connection to external zwave and Zigbee routers and it appears the C-8 would work perfectly for this. All it would require is some minor software changes with the Hubitat software stack disabled and ser2net in its place. Exactly the same thing that HomeSeer does with the Z-Net. The Z-Net is a raspberry pi with a zwave hat and ser2net.
This would be very desirable by users of other home automation hubs as the radios in the C-8 are the latest version, plus they use external antennas. Then by using a low cost PoE adapter, the C-8 could then be placed anywhere Ethernet can be ran in the house. There are many thousands of Home Assistant users that have the core software running virtually in a Docker container or on a virtual machine and a TCP based zwave and Zigbee controller will be much easier for them to use when compared to usb controllers.
Yes, there is a way to use the Hubitat API to link the two systems but this requires maintaining two separate systems as Hubitat would perform the zwave and Zigbee pairing and the other system would perform the front end (dashboard) duties. By using API’s it requires the users to maintain and update two systems when new software versions or device definitions are available. Plus it makes troubleshooting much more difficult as the issue would have to be traced through two system.
What I am proposing is much simpler than “linking APIs.”
A different, bare bones distro that can be loaded on the C-8 that only contains only ser2net and maybe ssh for remote access or
A mode that can be enabled through the Hubitat interface that disables the Hubitat software stack and enables ser2net and ssh.
This could done very easily in software and would not require any hardware changes. Plus it would be easy for your customer service team to support.
If this option was made available, this would immediately make the C-8 compatible with all recent Home Assistant builds as well as HomeSeer and substantially increase the amount of hardware sold.
Today, all good managers/owners are either monitoring social media for product ideas or are open to ideas presented to them that came from social media. I’m just trying to get the ball rolling. Thanks for your input and it would be appreciated if you could help escalate this to the proper person/department.
I think @marktheknife and others here know the position on Hubitat on this and he's right. They aren't going to be interested. If HA wants to do something similar (like something beyond their yellow) they will. There is enough HA integration available for hubitat to HA and vice versa.
You're basically describing an SBC with z-radios. I can put that together for less than the cost of the Hubitat C-8. So I don't envisage the uptick in sales you do. In any event, Hubitat staff monitor this forum multiple times a day. I'm sure they'll contact you if they find your concept to be worth the engineering effort.
While I typed this, @marktheknife explicitly tagged Hubitat staff for you.
I would just clarify I dont know anything, not being a part of their business team. I can only speak to what’s come up in discussions here in the online user community previously.
From what I’ve seen Hubitat management is opposed to hacking the hardware (allowing ssh or unlocking g u-boot) because it could potentially cause customer service issues and more customer service interactions. What I’m proposing is different (a different software stack or mode) and should not cause any customer service issues with proper documentation.
BTW, appreciate your candid responses. Discussion and debate is how things improve!
I’d challenge anyone to source an SBC, include the latest zwave and Zigbee radios (With external antennas), include a case and distribute it through Amazon for less than $160.
With todays component shortages, although improving, it is nearly impossible.
I can get 4GB Odroid C4s for $63. $7 for a case. And an microSD for $10 or less. A Home Assistant branded SkyConnect USB dongle (which has the same zigbee/thread chip as the C-8) is $30. And Zooz 800-series dongles are $27.
A debian/ubuntu-based distribution like Armbian is free. As is ser2net.
Yup - so I can build what you describe for ~20% less than $160. And I priced the components as if I was building a single unit - there's no bulk pricing involved.
Please check ameridroid.com for the prices I describe (Odroid, case, microSD and SkyConnect) and thesmartesthouse.com for the price of an 800-series z-wave dongle.
I don't want to post links here because I think they're unnecessary.
In case a decision maker reads this thread, here are some stats on home assistant users that have allowed analytics. HA themselves mention they approximate the actual installed base to be 3x.
Your point on the antennas is speculative, isn't it? Adding a USB extension cable adds about a $1 to the cost. And the Home Automation market that wants locally controlled devices is very small. The market that wants one controller to control something else via ser2net is smaller yet.
Anyway, none of this is my business. If Hubitat Inc. finds your thoughts to be of interest, I'm sure they'll pursue it. Suffice it to say that I would not.
The market you describe keeps shrinking. FWIW, there are multiple people here who use Hubitat alongside Home Assistant. As @rlithgow1 indicated, there are robust mechanisms to export HE-paired devices to HA and vice-versa.
I used to run HA on an Odroid XU4 and then an N2+ with USB radios. I'm currently using an HA Yellow with the onboard zigbee/thread radio with no signal issues (and no external antenna). I also have a smaller number of z-wave devices using a Zooz ZAC93 800-series GPIO module. Again with no signal issues and no external antenna.
I use HA as a test platform for z-wave devices and for zigbee devices that aren't supported well by Hubitat. All my automations are Hubitat-dependent. What sells Hubitat is the rich plethora of automation apps and choices. Not the hardware per se, which as I have indicated can be put together for a lower cost, even when priced for a single unit.
Anyway, I'm out. This thread is not worth my time.
