ZWave In wall outlet + dimmer. Does one exist?

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I have a single gang box that has an unswitched outlet in the bottom and on/off switch at the top.

The on/off switch controls a 2' strip of under cabinet LED lighting on one side of the kitchen sink.

I just replaced the under cabinet lighting on the other side of the sink, and all the other under cabinet lighting in the kitchen with LED lighting. These lights are controlled by two individual Z Wave dimming devices. I have a HE group that allows them to turn on/off and dim together with Alexa. I also have rules that make use of either switch do the same thing.

But, the 2' section of under cabinet lighting is independently controlled by the dumb switch in the top half of the outlet/switch box.

I can't run wiring between the left and right sides of the sink.

I can easily replace the outlet/switch with a Z Wave dimmer like what I used for the other two sections of LEDS. But, the outlet in the same box is pretty handy--we often have an appliance there.

Questions--

  1. Is there a zwave device with combined outlet and dimmer that will fit in a single gang box?

  2. I could live without dimming capability for that one section of lighting if it could still turn on/off with the other lights. But, the Zwave outlets I've found don't have terminals for switched AC power, so a "smart outlet" doesn't seem to be an option. Or, is one out there?

  3. Will an inline zwave dimmer fit in single gang box behind a "dump" outlet? Is that code compliant?

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I believe in general dimming outlets is a no-no. Even connecting smart switches to outlets is something I avoid, because a higher load device could be plugged in and fry it.

Could you possibly knock out the single gang box that has the stack outlet/switch and replace it with a 2-gang? If it is just drywall this is actually pretty easy to do. Then you could do a full smart switch and a full outlet there.

If not that, what about a smart plug where the lights plug in? Or would that be too bulky? Do the lights plug in with a transformer or just a normal plug end?

Finally if you have a deep enough box you might be able to fit a relay behind the outlet to make it a smart switch (or behind the switch/outlet combo). There might be one dimming behind the switch module I have seen before as well, Qubino possibly.

In either of the second two cases I would replace the outlet/switch combo with a full outlet to get rid of the dumb switch. Use the smart plug/relay to control the lights via rules triggered off the other switches since it sounds like you have two others in the same area for the same light system.

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Thanks for the reply...

because a higher load device could be plugged in and fry it.

I don't understand this. The outlet half of what I'm looking for would not be dimming. I don't see why it couldn't be 15 amps. The dimmer half would be load wires to the LED under cabinet lights.

The box is surrounded by back panel glass tile. It would be quite a job to remove enough for the a bigger box. Besides, just getting the original box out of the wall can be quite a hassle (I've done that).

I saw smart plugs that do the job, but the wiring is in the wall to the box already. So, the wires would have to egress the wall and go back in (if I'm understanding what you are suggesting).

Relay behind the outlet was what I was trying to ask about. Would that be code compliant.

Use the smart plug/relay to control the lights via rules triggered off the other switches since it sounds like you have two others in the same area for the same light system

Yes.

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There's a video showing a relay mounted in the same box as a dumb switch, so maybe it is code compliant:

If I can't find a dimmer in a similar package, I'll go with that. Hopefully, it is code compliant

Thanks!

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Shelly has one wifi controlled, and a response in their support forum indicated there may be a zwave available soon:

https://community.shelly.cloud/topic/1288-zwave-dimmer/

Meanwhile, I could go with their wifi version and replace it when the zwave version becomes available.

Unless someone knows about a zwave version...

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I am talking about the outlet that the LED lights plug into, at least I think they plug in based on your statement above saying the switch controlled an outlet.

Or is the LED lighting direct wired to the switch? Your original explanation was not clear.

I am now thinking this is the case, direct wired under cab lights right to the switch. Does it go through an exposed transformer anywhere inside a cabinet or do the lights take 120v directly wired to them?

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You are right, I was not clear.

Yes, the LED lighting fixture is direct wired to the switch. No exposed transformer--the transformer is in the fixture.

I did find a Qubino Z-wave mini dimmer that might fit in the box. Not many places to buy in US, it seems. But, still surfing...

Thanks!

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NEC code doesn’t allow installed receptacles to be dimmed. Only plugin dimmers are allowed by code.

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Clarifying, not really "direct wired".

Unswitched AC power goes to the single gang box. There is a Leviton device in the box that has an AC outlet in the bottom half, and dumb switch in the top half. The switch provides "switched AC" to in wall wires that power the 12" LED strip.

All this because of the retrofit of the original halogen, under cabinet lights.

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The receptacle would not be dimmed. Just the load wires.

Think in wall dimmer + 120 VAC outlet (not switched, not dimmed)

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Insteon makes one Insteon Dimmer Outlet

Can’t say I’ve ever seen a zwave one though

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I'm not aware of a UL certified single gang device that combines a single uncontrolled outlet and a single zwave or zigbee switch. I've only seen those single gang devices as a dumb device in a retrofit situation.

IF I correctly understand your hardwired setup is:

Single gang box, with a combo single dumb switch that controls the lights you are asking about and single outlet directly below that. The switch, although in the same box, does not control the outlet.

Your desire is to control the light concurrently with other lights.

In that case it seems you have a few options, including:

  1. If the box is large enough (IF, measure to see how deep the box is), you could install a Zooz z-wave dimming relay Zen 54. Then wire the light to bypass the switch. You could then install a standard two plug outlet. Standard outlet takes up very little space in the box, so good chance there is enough space in the box for a relay. Then set up the lights previously switched from this box to go on and off and dim when the other lights with the zwave dimming devices go on and off and dim. If you still want switch control at that location, you could place a battery powered switch such as a Zen 34 or Zen 37 at that location. All the setup is in Hubitat.
  2. If the box is NOT large enough for a relay, and you don't want to make a larger box, is the box under the upper cabinets? If so, I would cut a 4x4 hole in the back of the uppper cabinet, and through to the gyp, as low as possible, directly over the box with the switch. Then see if the hardwired conductor for the lights can be grabbed and pulled into the new box (this is why you want to go as low as possible). Good chance this was a retrofit and can be grabbed. Put a pull string on it before you grab it. Then pull a new wire between old and new box with the pull string. Then install Zen 54 in new box, and standard outlet in old box and wire it all up. If you REALLY want a wired switch, you can even install one in the bottom of the cabinet - use a short run of bx cable to connect a single gang new box at the bottom of the cabinet to the new 4x4 box; just make sure you shift the new box over far enough to not restrict access to the new 4x4 2 gang box you just installed. I'd just put a blank on the new 4x4 box.
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Yes that is the one I was thinking of that would dim.

Would you possibly have room for it inside the housing of the cabinet light?

I am thinking you might be able to get rid of the switch totally and just wire the light hot, then add a relay/dimmer inside the housing of the light. Or maybe a small box in the back of the cabinet depending on how its wired.

Otherwise I think your only option will be to try and jam a relay/dimmer in the switch box. Even then you could still eliminate the switch if you wanted to. May need to remove the box and replace it with an extra deep box or one that has a cavity off to the side behind the wall.

FYI this device only works for 0-10v LED dimming, not traditional 120v dimming.
Otherwise everything else you said makes sense assuming you get the proper dimmer/relay module that will work for the lights.

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Thanks for all the suggestions!

Correct.

you could install a Zooz z-wave dimming relay Zen 54.... Then wire the light to bypass the switch.

Zen 54 is a 0 to 10V dimmer. I need a 120V dimmer. But, as jtp10181, Qubino has a small dimming module that might fit in the box. Kelly may have one available soon. But, is it ok code wise, to have those in the same single gang box as an AC outlet?

If you still want switch control at that location, you could place a battery powered switch such as a Zen 34 or Zen 37

Don't need or even want a switch at that location.

If so, I would cut a 4x4 hole in the back of the uppper cabinet, and through to the gyp, as low as possible, directly over the box with the switch. Then see if the hardwired conductor for the lights can be grabbed and pulled into the new box.

The wall between the cabinet and the outlet box is covered with mirror tile. It's easy enough to pull wire from there into the cabinet, but the wife can't stand the idea of a box in the cabinet. We had a big argument about that--I wanted simple LED strip in extrusion undercabinet with transformer either mounted below or in the cabinet. We didn't have working undercabinet lights for three years because we couldn't agree. Finally, I said "yes, dear" and bought the fixtures that are hardwired to AC (and the transformer is internal to them).

I am thinking you might be able to get rid of the switch totally and just wire the light hot, then add a relay/dimmer inside the housing of the light. Or maybe a small box in the back of the cabinet depending on how its wired.

I don't think it will fit in the fixture housing. Just getting the wires and connectors to fit in the fixture was a challenge.

Otherwise I think your only option will be to try and jam a relay/dimmer in the switch box. Even then you could still eliminate the switch if you wanted to.

Yes, the intent is to have no switch in that box. If a single dumb outlet was available that takes up less space, that would be fine too.

I'm going to measure the depth of the box this evening and see if the Qubino fill fit.

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So, what I am looking for would not expose an outlet with the dimmed voltage at all. Just provide load wires for the in-wall wires for the light fixture and an unswitched outlet.

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Do you mean this outlet is used for AC, or are you referring to alternating current?

You can have a device in the box as long as the box is not overfull. There is a code max. fill percentage for each box, and you can calculate it based on both devices and wires.

The 4x4 box would be recessed in the wall, with a blank plate on it on the back face of the cabinet, accessible via the cabinet. Will not take up any space in the cabinet. Now if you want to go further and add a new box for a switch at the underside of the cabinet that box would be in the cabinet, but you said you were not looking to replace the existing switch...

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You can have a device in the box as long as the box is not overfull. There is a code max. fill percentage for each box, and you can calculate it based on both devices and wires.

I understand the box fill restrictions, but I was thinking having low voltage control circuitry in the same box as 120VAC might be a code violation.

Back when I wired my first house in 1980 (with relays centrally located for controlling 120VAC circuits), there was a requirement to keep low voltage wiring physically separated from the 120VAC circuits. There was big separator in the relay box, with the relays having 120 VAC wires egresing on the high voltage side of the separator, and the low voltage (24VAC IIRC) egressing on the low voltage side.

In 1995, I had to use a bracket to hang low voltage suff (RJ45, coax) outside the standard single or double gang boxes. You weren't allowed to mount both the RJ45 (or coax) in the same box as the outle.

Things have likely evolved since then, but having something like a zwave relay in the box would certainly defeat the intent of those restrictions, if not the "letter of the law".

Understand. My wife can't stand the thought of cutting holes in the expensive, custom cabinets. She also thinks having a plate in a cabinet is "weird".

Not logical, tired of arguing about it, hence the "yes dear".

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Is it, you cannot have low voltage and line voltage in the same box without a separator, but usually these mini relays are all 120v, they are designed to be installed in a 120v box.

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Could be that's the difference. No low voltage wiring that could get mechanically abused so they short to the high voltage.

That would make sense.

Thanks again for all the thoughtful responses!