Even more than that, security systems that are certified and use wireless devices actually have to verify that the wireless device is functional and working periodically. It is proactive, and doesn't just assume that the wireless device is still there.
Again, I'm not saying that you can't use a home automation system as a makeshift security system. I'm all for grown-ups making their own mind up on things.
I just encourage those doing so to really understand that it won't be as reliable. If they're okay with that, and still think it will be reliable enough for their needs, that is their decision.
There are USB zigbee routers/repeaters that can run on 5VDC backup power, but you’ll have to assemble the package yourself, including designing a suitable enclosure etc.
I thought there would be a ZB repeater with battery already in the market. I guess not
I will definitely go the route of assembling ZB USB Dongles + powerback connected to the wall. I think this is the best solution for the moment
We do have 433mhz based alarm systems as well but they are too basic and has limited modes of operation (ARM , HOME ARM, DISARM) whereas with hubitat we can configure things like alert only movements in the kitchen between 2am to 4am , and similar conditions. hence the need for a smarter alarm system
BTW
can hubitat be used as a repeater as well? perhaps i can install hubitat in another part of the haus.
First the obligatory "HE is not a security system" comment. Despite the fact that it works, there are too many variables in the performance of HE for it to serve as a mission critical security system (eg hub crash, need for backup power on your hub and network).
No, but you can use hub mesh to expose devices on one hub to another.
Yes (using hub mesh). Presumably you have wired ethernet and backup power to the other part otherwise you would need wifi and then have to worry about maintaining power to that as well as your access point(s).
This. Even if this is a project being done on behalf of a friend or relative (OP didn’t specify). Earlier this year they added a disclaimer to the Hubitat Safety Monitor app configuration page to try to make that clearer to users.
If I was expecting a security system from an installer, and then I came to find out this disclaimer exists but wasn’t disclosed ahead of time, I would be pretty PO’ed.
There is a UL standard 681 that defines the characteristics and certifications of security systems. Many of the attributes of the standard refer back to heath and access of the system. You may remember that the first Nest systems were UL listed for using a UL monitoring station but the system itself wasn't UL certified until a later version.
One of the attributes is access to system's arming and disarming mechanisms, and there is a reason why Vista and SimpliSafe don't provide API access the "certification" would be nullified due to the access path is no longer under strict hardware access methods.
Those warning that HE is not a proper security system are spot on.
Here's some info about reliability of devices that act as repeaters and have battery backup. In this case it's my Ring Extender story (Z-wave, not Zigbee, of course, but it illustrates a limitation to think about).
We live in a rural area of Maine. Things like tree limbs sometimes play havoc with the grid power when a storm is blowing through, causing the electricity to go through rapid on-off cycles. I have three Ring extenders that I use primarily as power outage alert devices, to warn me that the power is out or has been restored in each building on our property (i.e., did the backup generator kick in, and did the transfer switch at each building do its job?). When the grid goes through those rapid power cycles, at least one of those three Ring extenders has ~ 30% probability of locking up and not properly reporting its status ("mains" vs. "battery"). I've no idea as to whether it is still repeating as that's not their main purpose. But I sure as heck wouldn't want to trust them as part of a security system! A manual unlpug/replug restores things, but those devices can definitely lock up, at least to the point they don't correctly report their status. Never happens with our "real" security system - the one we rely on to act like a security system because that's what it is.
There are 2 versions of the dongle - P and E. The E version was only recently released but the P version is well supported. The only issue is that you probably need to use a cable to plug it into the battery pack as it's going to be quite unwieldy when plugged in directly.
The one I linked to has been discussed to death on this thread DIY- Battery Backup Hubitat- under TEN bucks-NO soldering. And yes my Tuyas still work fine if you disconnect power due to the way these are designed and the repeaters don't draw enough current to pose an issue, with the only exception being if the power outage is long enough to completely deplete the battery then when power comes on there may not be enough to charge and power the device simultaneously. That said these repeaters draw so little power that in my area this does not pose an issue.
Thanks for the advise. I actually advised and let my client choose and he is fully aware of the difference between our standard 433mhz dedicated alarm systems and hubitat. After explaining how the tech works, he chose hubitat for various reasons such as configurability. So it is my job now to design the system best i can. One of my considerations for this is to have redundant repeaters in the network just to make sure connectivity is good - expecting that we already have a good zw/zb repeaters with built in backup power already by now.. it's 2022!
Although I've to admit I didnt know about this disclaimer was in hubitat. I'd be sure to show it to him,.
I think it’s always been the staff’s publicly stated position, for all the reasons mentioned above. But it was added into the app page itself only a few months ago IIRC.
Since it sounds like you’ve kept your client appropriately informed, ultimately it’s their call re: what to prioritize .
There’s an issue here. Many zigbee devices stick to the repeater they pick initially. So I’m sure that redundancy is as important as picking high quality repeaters.
For indoors, I recommend the Tuya USB repeaters that @rocketwiz linked to.
Question..... are zigbee repeters like what ROcketWiz recommended better than using zigbee plugs (w/c are natively repeaters themselves) in terms of range and relay capabilities?
I ask because I can get Zigbee plugs around here easier. Then for my power backup, i realized that the IP CAMERA System we will install will have IDFs around the property that are powered from the server's UPS .. So it wont be difficult for me to use ZB plug as repeater, ill just have then plugged on our surveillance power line (that are, again, centralized directly to the server with UPS)
Zigbee plugs will work fine as repeaters in your case although if you have xiaomi sensors you will need to check the forums or do some testing as there can be compatibility issues (I can only confirm they won't with the old smartthings plugs).
I'm guessing @tj1 is not in the UK, so this is more anecdote than advice, but the SPG100 / SPG900 smart plugs are the only ones I know designed with battery backup for this exact reason. They even report when mains power is lost or restored.
The original AlertMe system was designed as a security system replacement, and sold as such by AlertMe and then British Gas before they pivoted to Hive. British Gas managed to kill off their "Safe and Secure" service before I ever had a fault with it.
Because my original security system was defunct before Hubitat I do use one HE hub as a security system replacement. It is on a small UPS and purely runs all the AlertMe gear. The only thing it really lacks is a cellular modem for emergency calls and SMS, but the router is also on a UPS and that does have a cellular emergency connection, so... fine, I guess.
Yes Aaiyar, since we installed already IP camera network all over the house and we already have POE field switches for the cameras in different areas of the house, and these switches are AC powered straight from the server's ups - we use CAT6 cables with integrated AC electrical cable to deliver both data and AC power to the field switches. From there, I can splice the AC line to power the ZB plugs. In fact i'm thinking of using the ZB plug with the PoE Switch so i can easily control the power of the PoE Switch and do scheduled reboots. Heck, I am now thinking of creating something to detect if the cameras in a cluster unresponsive (simple pings) and if they are, reboot the switch in that area thru the ZB plug - am I in an OK direction?
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