Stupid newbie question here - is removing a device from within a Z-wave hub like Hubitat the same thing as Excluding it?
Every time I try to remove a device, I end up having to "force remove" it within Hubitat and I'm not sure if that is excluding it or not.
That is not the same as excluding it. The odds are high that you have a number of stranded z-wave nodes.
Best way to avoid having to do this is to bring the device close to the hub or the hub close to the device. During this attempt.
How can I fix this, assuming you are right? I'm again having my monthly Hubitat-refuses-to-work-properly - devices lose connection, I try to remove them, but cannot add them back, etc. Does just excluding them properly and adding them back fix the stranded Z-wave node problem?
Remove is a process that does an Exclude along the way.
Exclude is, in part, a message to the device to delete the Home Network number it stores. That makes the device eligible to be Included later. But the rest of the Remove process covers deleting the device from the Hub's DB too.
When you Click Remove it starts by placing the hub in Exclude mode, waiting for a Device to signal that it should be removed. Once that handshake is complete, the device erases it's Home Network number and resets its Node ID. Meanwhile, the hub has begun the steps needed to remove the device from the DB.
If you don't cause the device and the hub to perform the handshake, the Hub will offer a Force Remove. It's recommended that you don't choose that if the device is actually still available. Just retry til it does Remove/Exclude correctly.
Force Remove has its place in situations where a device is defective or otherwise unavailable to be placed into Exclude mode. However, it relies on the fact that the device does NOT answer at all. If it does, then you will have what we call an Orphan device and the Hub will try to communicate with it endlessly. Too many of those and your mesh gets busy with messages that can't possibly succeed, elbowing out messages that are needed.
Your symptoms sound a lot like a weak mesh.. where the devices are just far enough apart that communications is low and in certain moments, failing.
C-5 or C-7? WIth a C-5, stranded nodes (and ghost nodes) can only be seen if you use an external secondary controller. And you need an external secondary controller to remove stranded and ghost nodes as well.
I went through this about a year ago, having forced removed several devices that did not exclude from my C-5. The stranded devices really slowed my z-wave mesh to a crawl.
I have a C-5. Prior to this, I had Wink. I removed everything from Wink, but now I'm not sure if I excluded them properly. Anyway, I added them to my C-5, but as you can probably guess from my multiple support requests on this forum, I never really got the consistently awesome Hubitat experience everyone else seems to be having . I would have issues with devices not updating the dashboards, devices becoming unresponsive, delays between controlling the device and the device responding, etc.
Right now I have four Leviton DZ15S switches that have completely lost connection to Hubitat, noticeable not just from lack of response but because the "last activity" line in the device details page will often be from weeks or months ago. I try to remove them, am told I must "force remove" them, which I do, and even when I later go back and exclude them separately, I still find that I cannot add them back - either they add and get stuck on the initialization step, or they don't add at all.
What exactly is an "external secondary controller" and how do I get one?
I'm really at my wit's end with Hubitat, to be honest. I'm at a point where I'd even be willing to pay someone to come here and fix everything for me. It seems like everyone else has a great experience with it and I wonder why I'm the only one who seems to be having problems every 2 weeks. Trying to fix these problems is turning into a full time job for me.
I'm not sure what else to do. I've even bought 5 Z-wave extenders... if my mesh is still weak then what can I do differently?
If you were able to Include the devices into Hubitat then Wink is out of the picture. However, if your Wink is still powered on, then it is possibly going crazy trying to find its devices... you may have interference as a result. Power that Wink off if you haven't already.
Wink has been powered off and physically removed for months now, so I'm pretty sure that's not the problem if adding them to Hubitat excludes the possibility of Wink interference.
Let's say for the purposes of argument that removing a device never works for me - I always have to "force remove it." Bringing the Wink hub physically close to each of my switches is just not practical.
If I "force remove" a device, and then go back and exclude it using the discover devices option, will that be sufficient to prevent stranded Z-wave nodes?
Yes. I have done this. And it works.
For a secondary controller, I use an SiLabs UZB3, which was about $35. But the newer UZB7 is only $20 - so I would get that now. And I used it with PC Controller downloaded for free from Silicon Labs.
OK, that's good to know. So, what is an external secondary controller and how do I get one to remove other stranded Z wave nodes?
Or do I need to exclude every device and add it back to do that?
Not sure how many total devices you have or how much automation you already have done containing those devices, but if you do force remove all of them, reset your zwave radio, then perform a factory reset on each device. You should be able to start from scratch. This is a worst case scenario solution. But you will need to delete and redo all automations pertaining to those devices.
I'm hoping to avoid that nuclear option, as I have around 50+ devices.
Are these available on Amazon? My searches are turning up nothing. If not, where do you get them from?
Also, I would need to use these with my Mac - would they work with those?
Would force removing and then excluding devices be expected to remove stranded Z-wave nodes?
or the 700 series one:
I'd highly recommend the Aeon Z-Stick
https://www.amazon.com/Aeotec-Z-Stick-Z-Wave-create-gateway/dp/B00X0AWA6E
it has a battery and you can walk IT to your stubborn devices and Exclude that way as well as use it plugged into a computer's USB and run PC Controller.
Thanks, so this device basically equips my computer with a Z-wave radio? I would then need some kind of software with my Mac to find these stranded Z-wave nodes, right?
Download the Hubitat app
