Z-wave devices stopped responding on new hub

I started the move to HE because of what is happening to Smartthings. I took off from work, and for three days, I’ve been moving devices, pistons etc. to HE. I had about 220 actual and virtual devices to move, of which approximately 50 were Z-wave devices. So far, I’ve also about 30 of 60 pistons.

All went fairly well until, all of a sudden, I started getting issues with Z-wave devices on Saturday evening. It happened about 6 hours after I included the last Z-wave device. I’ve done a few hours’ reading about Z-wave issues and have tried things like Z-wave repair and let it settle for a few hours; turned the hub off for 30 minutes etc. Matters gradually got worse as more Z-wave devices stopped responding. The last time I rebooted the hub last night (that was about 7 hours ago), it took at least 30 minutes for the first Z-wave device to show data movement/being alive. It is as if they are not there (although they show in the Z-wave list). After leaving the hub alone for about hours overnight, I tried turning on a few things closest to the hub which had been included first. The first device I tried turned on immediately. The second one took two or three seconds longer. The third one did not respond, and when I tried to turn off the first two, nothing happened. Now I’m back to no Z-wave devices responding.

Some more info which may help diagnose the problem:

It's as if the hub takes less and less time to stop controlling Z-wave devices between the time the first device is turned on after a reboot until devices stop responding.

Devices within a few meters (3 to 6 m) from the hub show some of the slowest connection speeds.

Many devices have joined with S0 security, which according to the forum, is bad. I don’t think there is any way to include them with no security.

The physical location of devices did not move. (I took the hub to the devices for the inclusion process.) Afterwards, the HE hub is located at the same spot as where the ST hub is. The Z-wave devices were working fine with the ST hub. Strangely enough, the devices furthest from the hub, which were sometimes slow to respond with ST, were initially working very well with the HE hub.

Non-z-wave devices and pistons seem to run fine. However, when the Z-wave devices started acting up, I tried to make a webCore backup of the pistons, which failed. After making numerous attempts, I decided that one of the pistons must have an issue which caused the backup to fail. I opened all 27 pistons I had moved across and re-saved them, but that did not help. The backup still fails at piston 20 of 27. Backing the pistons up individually works. I doubt that this could cause the Z-wave issues, though.

The Z-wave log currently shows messages between the hub and a few devices, but they don’t respond.

Could it be that I have a bad Z-wave radio?

Node Status Device Type Connection Speed RTT Avg RTT Std Dev LWR RSSi RoutingFor Count NeighborCount Rought Changed Error Count Security Route
0x0F OK Power Switch Binary 40kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 8 0 0 None -> 0x0A -> 0x0D -> 0x13 -> 0x0F
0x14 OK Power Switch Multilevel 40kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 17 0 0 None -> 0x0A -> 0x0D -> 0x14
0x16 OK Power Switch Binary 9.6kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 1 0 0 S0 -> 0x0A -> 0x1E -> 0x16
0x30 OK Power Switch Binary 9.6kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 5 0 0 S0 -> 0x0A -> 0x2B -> 0x30
0x29 OK Power Switch Binary 40kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 18 0 0 None -> 0x0B -> 0x19 -> 0x29
0x2E OK Power Switch Binary 9.6kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 13 0 0 S0 -> 0x0B -> 0x2E
0x12 OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 16 0 0 S0 -> 0x11 -> 0x12
0x15 OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 16 0 0 S0 -> 0x11 -> 0x15
0x1C OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 16 0 0 S0 -> 0x11 -> 0x1C
0x1E OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 1 14 0 0 S0 -> 0x19 -> 0x1E
0x2A OK Power Switch Binary 9.6kbps 28 ms 34.37 ms 24 dB 0 9 19 0 S0 -> 0x19 -> 0x27 -> 0x2A
count: 69
0x13 OK Power Switch Binary 40kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 1 15 0 0 None -> 0x1D -> 0x13
0x1A OK Notification Sensor 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 5 0 0 S0 -> 0x1D -> 0x19 -> 0x1A
0x2D OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 4 0 0 S0 -> 0x1D -> 0x27 -> 0x2D
0x2C OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 7 0 0 S0 -> 0x1F -> 0x27 -> 0x2C
0x28 OK Power Switch Binary 40kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 20 0 0 None -> 0x1F -> 0x28
0x34 OK Siren 100kbps 8 ms 2.55 ms 10 dB 1 17 1 0 S0 -> 0x1F -> 0x34
count: 2
0x20 OK Notification Sensor 40kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 8 0 0 S0 -> 0x22 -> 0x19 -> 0x20
0x32 OK Notification Sensor 40kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 9 0 0 None -> 0x34 -> 0x32
0x0A OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps 2 ms 2.71 ms 11 dB 4 19 1 0 S0 DIRECT
count: 27
0x0B OK Routing Sensor Multilevel 100kbps 1 ms 3.36 ms 12 dB 2 16 3 0 None DIRECT
count: 32
0x0C OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 10 0 0 S0 DIRECT
0x0D OK Power Switch Binary 40kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 2 19 0 0 None DIRECT
0x0E OK Power Switch Binary 40kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 25 0 0 None DIRECT
0x10 OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 24 0 0 S0 DIRECT
0x11 OK Routing Sensor Multilevel 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 3 18 0 0 None DIRECT
0x17 OK Power Switch Multilevel 40kbps 2 ms 0.00 ms 13 dB 0 27 1 0 None DIRECT
count: 1
0x18 OK Power Switch Binary Unknown unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 29 0 0 None DIRECT
0x19 OK Power Switch Multilevel 100kbps 1 ms 0.00 ms 11 dB 5 34 1 0 S0 DIRECT
count: 10
0x1B OK Routing Sensor Multilevel 100kbps 226 ms 251.80 ms unknown 0 16 2 0 S0 DIRECT
count: 4
0x1D OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 3 24 0 0 S0 DIRECT
0x1F OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 3 26 0 0 S0 DIRECT
0x21 OK Power Switch Binary 40kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 26 0 0 None DIRECT
0x22 OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps 4 ms 5.88 ms 9 dB 1 17 3 0 S0 DIRECT
count: 48
0x23 OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps 156 ms 268.08 ms unknown 0 21 16 0 S0 DIRECT
count: 43
0x24 OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 14 0 0 S0 DIRECT
0x25 OK Power Switch Binary Unknown unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 1 0 0 S0 DIRECT
0x26 OK Notification Sensor 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 1 0 0 None DIRECT
0x27 OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps 19 ms 16.63 ms 3 dB 3 21 2 0 None DIRECT
count: 4
0x2B OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 1 24 0 0 S0 DIRECT
0x2F OK Power Switch Binary 100kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 22 0 0 S0 DIRECT
0x31 OK Power Switch Binary 40kbps 17 ms 67.87 ms 12 dB 0 15 20 0 S0 DIRECT
count: 202
0x33 OK Secure Keypad Door Lock 40kbps unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 30 0 0 S0 DIRECT
0x35 OK Power Switch Binary Unknown unknown 0.00 ms unknown 0 1 0 DIRECT

I purchased two HE hubs and was going to install the second one at my holiday home in two weeks. Fortunately, I added a cloud backup of the first hub a few hours before the problems started. I wondered if I should try restoring the cloud backup to the other hub. My understanding is that that is supposed to be a painless exercise. Would I be able to wipe that hub for installation at my other home should the issue appear on that hub as well?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Could you post screenshots of the z-wave page instead of the table? My first assumptions are that either you have a ghost device or one (or more) of the S0 devices are wrecking havoc on your mesh.

The only options for getting some S0 devices to pair without security is the use a USB stick as a secondary controller. That, essentially, allows you to pair the device as S0 to the stick which will pass it as no auth to the hub (for a long technical reason that I, honestly, don't fully understand).

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Thanks for assisting. I trust this is what you're looking for?

The last device without any Route info worried me, so I tried to remove it after a further reboot and before trying to switch any Z-wave device. (All webCore pistons paused.) The device is about 10 meters from the Hub. Two attempts to remove the device from the hub were unsuccessful, with no indication in the Z-wave log of my attempt to remove it:

[Kitchen TV](http://192.168.0.24/hub/zwaveLogs#zwaveRx31)2022-09-12 08:15:59.210 seqNo: 224, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 0ms, repeaters: None, speed: Unknown

[Kitchen TV](http://192.168.0.24/hub/zwaveLogs#zwaveRx31)2022-09-12 08:15:57.708 seqNo: 223, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 0ms, repeaters: None, speed: Unknown

[Kitchen TV](http://192.168.0.24/hub/zwaveLogs#zwaveRx31)2022-09-12 08:15:57.207 seqNo: 222, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 0ms, repeaters: None, speed: Unknown

[Kitchen TV](http://192.168.0.24/hub/zwaveLogs#zwaveRx31)2022-09-12 08:15:52.701 seqNo: 221, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 0ms, repeaters: None, speed: Unknown

[Kitchen TV](http://192.168.0.24/hub/zwaveLogs#zwaveRx31)2022-09-12 08:15:52.201 seqNo: 220, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 0ms, repeaters: None, speed: Unknown

[Bathroom Multisensor](http://192.168.0.24/hub/zwaveLogs#zwaveRx0B)2022-09-12 08:15:33.478 seqNo: 219, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 0ms, repeaters: None, speed: Unknown, rssi: [0 dBm, 0 dBm, 0 dBm, 0 dBm, 0 dBm], Ack channel: 0, Transmit channel: 0

[Geyser Downstairs ](http://192.168.0.24/hub/zwaveLogs#zwaveRx2A)2022-09-12 08:15:00.120 seqNo: 218, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 0ms, repeaters: None, speed: Unknown

[Bathroom](http://192.168.0.24/hub/zwaveLogs#zwaveRx0A)2022-09-12 08:14:51.606 seqNo: 217, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 0ms, repeaters: None, speed: Unknown

[Bathroom](http://192.168.0.24/hub/zwaveLogs#zwaveRx0A)2022-09-12 08:14:50.203 seqNo: 216, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 0ms, repeaters: None, speed: Unknown

[Bathroom](http://192.168.0.24/hub/zwaveLogs#zwaveRx0A)2022-09-12 08:14:49.712 seqNo: 215, routeChanged: false, transmissionTime: 0ms, repeaters: None, speed: Unknown

Another interesting thing I noted is that I only see entries in the log from a few devices. Nothing from any of the other devices.

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0x25 and 0x35 might be your issue as they aren’t showing a route, recommend removing and re-adding. Also see a lot of S0 which is very chatty - would advise pairing those without security (requires removing and re-pairing); as these appear to all be switches pairing without security should be permitted.

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Yes, too many S0 devices can bring down your mesh, especially with zooz products. You can include these devices without s0 using a z-wave stick paired as a secondary controller.

In general it sounds like your mesh is being overwhelmed. Pair everything you can without security (except for locks and garage door stuff)

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I believe you meant to say......"Pair everything you can without security....."

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LOL I did, corrected...

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One thing at a time.

  1. As pointed out, the two ghost nodes need to be removed. If they are still powered on, then the hub may still see the device as being up and won't remove it. You can either kill power to the devices (like switching off the breaker) or use a USB stick to remove them. If you don't have a USB stick on hand, the breaker route may be a quicker fix.

  2. Some devices paired with S0 may not be an issue, but having as many as you do will probably end up in headaches. This is probably not as urgent as the ghosts.

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I have an Aeon Minimote, but the comments on the forum seem to be that it can't be used - at least not to include a device. I ordered an Aeon USB stick this morning.
Took another day of work and I've been fighting this all day. What also may be an issue, is that the Fibaro drivers seem to have "Enable Debug Logging" and/or "Enable description Text logging" on by default. Turning these off (which took forever, because the hub is waiting for the Z-wave network most of the time) seems to have made a big difference.
I made screenshots of the settings of all devices in the Smartthings app before I excluded they were removed. I checked the screenshots and these settings were off while the devices were linked to the Smartthings hub.

It can …..

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Most (all?) drivers have logging turned on for 30 minutes after installation.

You can use the built-in Preferences Manager app to change this or other settings all at one time.

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I wish I had known this. Would have saved me at least an hour today. (I went through all devices and their children one by one to turn this off. :frowning: )

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How would doing this influence devices connected to a repeater device if the repeater is joined without S0? E.g.. I have a Yale Z-wave lock that routes via a repeater relay switch to the hub. Would the lock (which can only be joined with S0 security) still be able to use the relay as a repeater to reach the hub, if the relay is joined with security "None"?

Yes. Repeaters are agnostic and simply pass what's put through them encrypted or not. In general regardless of the level of encryption (s2 for instance) it is recommended not to use except for locks and garage door stuff due to general overhead on the mesh. I mean let's face it, if someone is close enough to sniff your network they are close enough to see what light you just turned on through the window. S0 though is incredibly chatty and should be avoided when possible. In the case of your lock though I would leave it and eliminate it on everything else. Zooz 4-in-1's are notorius for killing meshes with just 2 with s0 enabled. The fact that you have so much going on tells me you're mesh is likely being flooded. Turn it off and I bet it will be a happy mesh :slight_smile: I don't know if you've read this post but it still might help..

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Thank you, that makes sense. No, I missed that posting. Looking at it now, thank you.

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Download the Hubitat app