Yet another ubiquiti question

I have been fighting an issue the last few days that I hope someone here can help me with. Got a Rheem water heater a couple of months ago, got it connected to my network easily. couple of days ago, something caused the water heater to leave the network. After many attempts to get it back online, finally called Rheem to troubleshoot. They suggested I create a IoT SSID network, which I have been reluctant to implement, as everything was working great well, good enough. Their explanation was that these IoT devices like Rheem water heaters will connect at first, but if anything changes on the wireless network will prevent them to reconnect because I had WPA2 selected, and it should be WPA/WPA2 instead. Now, everything that is connected 2.4 GHz is having issues. A Blink camera system that was stupidly connected to the IoT network didn't work. Put it back on normal network, refuses up Refresh Thumbnail. A Sense electric meeter that I tried to add to the new IoT SSID couldn't even see the network.

So, I have a TP-Link Deco mesh. Apparently, there is a documented bug sorry, feature, where this particular scenario is discussed and has been known for a long time. I am ready to move on to Ubiquity (I think.) So, how well does the IoT type of SSID work on Ubiquity? Not too concerned about a Guest network (which I also tried for the Rheem - no luck.)

IF it is more stable, I will need some expert recommendations from this huge pool of knowledge to assist me in my goal. I find the explanations of the various pieces and parts of the Ubiquity universe to be kind of confusing.

Looking to replace 1 mesh network with 3 AP's with a Ubiquity solution. Not adverse to replace the TP-Link ER605 I have for a Dream Machine UDR7.

Smart? Advisable? Stupid because this is an IoT issue? I do find it funny that IoT is the las three letters as IDIoT.

In my Unifi setup it works well. I was running a single SSID with 5GHz and 2.4GHz networks. I too had some issues with IoT type devices dropping connections (mainly my Eufy internal cameras that are used in Homekit). In the Unifi Network app there is a separate setting - 'Enhaced IoT Connectivity' that limits this WiFi network to 2.4GHz only with special compatibility settings. Recommended if you are experiencing connectivity issues with 2.4GHz IoT devices'. Rather than apply that setting to my normal WiFi SSID ('myWiFi'), I just created a second SSID and appended the name ('myWiFi-IoT'). That SSID is configured to work on 2.4GHz only and has the IoT setting applied. I use it for my Harmony hub, Honeywell EvoHome hub, Dishwasher (HomeConnect), Fridge (LG ThinQ) and several WiFi cameras that are 2.4GHz only (EzViz and Eufy). It's been very stable without disconnects since making the changes.

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I have the UDR (not the UDR 7) with two U6-Lite AP's. Keep in mind that the UDR itself has an internal AP with good coverage so that may be one of your three.

I've been keeping up to date on the Unifi forum and can see there have been a few teething problems with the UDR 7 so not sure if they're all ironed out with firmware yet (strangely the old UDR that I have has beta firmware available in a newer version than the UDR 7)

I found it a bit confusing when I set mine up. It is possible to run Unifi network controller on an RPI and just use the AP's with an existing router but something like the UDR 7 makes it way easier. The UDR 7 will run Unifi Network so you don't need anything else such as a Cloud Key controller as it's all built in. Unifi Network running on the UDR becomes the web interface through which all setup is carried out (theres no web UI on the APs themselves). When an AP is detected (or a switch for that matter) you 'adopt' it into your network and all of your WiFi settings are applied to it.

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First creating a IOT network is simply putting your network into a compatibility mode basically. From a Unifi perspective they simply adjust the settings used for that SSID to improve compatibility. It shouldn't be a requirement for something to work though. I have serious concerns if they are asking you to do this so you can turn on WPA security. That is a problem with their device and firmware. WPA is extremely old at this point and extremely insecure. It is just barely better then WEP at this point. Everything should aim for WPA3 support if you want security of your network. Can you set everything back the way it was before you started to try to fix this issue and see if that gets everything functioning except the Rheem device.

What I am suspecting is that you may be having a issue with the radio signal at that device for some reason. Wifi is great when if it just works but because it is wireless tech all kind of shenanigans can cause poor or weak signal for a device which can wreak havoc on how it works. It may have nothing to do with your network and simply the antenna in that device is weak. You could have a Mesh AP that has a failing radio causing issues and it could of been masked by other AP devices. I would ask you go to exactly where that Rheem device is and check the radio signal with something like wifiman on your phone.

Now as far as Unifi goes there are a few things that you need to understand when considering it. First as it was eluded to by @johnwill1 Unifi isn't exactly as simple as just going and buying a router. Unifi has a Network App that acts as a controller for all other devices on the network. Some devices include the ability to run the Unifi Network App while others do not. For home use I personally wouldn't consider a devices that doesn't include the ability to run the Unifi apps on the router. Also because some of those same devices are also designed to be good options for SOHO/Small office setup some do not include a AP in the Router/Controler device. So you need to consider that when deciding on which one to get and buy AP's accordingly.

The basic breakdown is all of the Unifi Cloud Gateway devices are router gateway only so you would need to buy a AP to go with them. Be careful because they do have devices labeled "Unifi Gateway" that don't include the ability to run the network app and manage other devices.

The Unifi Express line of devices are intended to be the most basic options, but include a AP in them. These are the simplest option, but generally the least feature rich. The nice thing about these devices is that they can also function as a AP if you outgrow them and decide to implement another device to control your network. At this point don't get older one as it is under powered and a waist.

Then you have the Dream Routers. These are interesting devices because they have bit more functionality then the express devices, but still lack some of the functionality of the UCG comparable devices. They include an AP and tend to be bigger then the comparable devices of that generation with similar functions.

That said the UX7 and the UDR7 were just released so they are very compelling compared to the other stuff.

Lastly keep in mind most of the Unifi Gear will require you to use POE to power them. Some of the gear has a POE port or two while some have non. If you don't get a device that can supply POE you will need to buy POE Injectors to provide the needed power. I ended up with a Flex 2.5 8 POE switch to supply power for everything.

I have a UCG Max, 1xU6+ AP, and 2 U7 Pro Wall AP's which for the most part has been a positive experience. If I was to buy it today I would probably pick up a UCG-Fiber instead of the max though as it has 10Gbe that can be used for some internal network to speed stuff up. Seriously though that would be overkill. I might skip the U6+, and get the U7-Lite, but i am not sure. The U7 Gear has had some teething issues.

I upgraded from a Google Wifi Gen1 kit with 3 pucks. It used Wifi 5 AC Wave 1 tech and was reaching it's capacity of network size. It seems to struggle once you get around 80-90 (25-30 devices per AP) devices. This is pretty much typical with any Wifi network of that gen or older. I have actually experienced some weird Wifi issues myself as of late. The cause though isn't very straight forward. My problem is I have a few devices that clearly don't have the best antenna's, and also support 5/6ghz radio for faster communication. Because the majority of my network is 2.4 ghz IoT type devices any time the problem devices would fall back to the 2.4Ghz band, network performance was abysmal for them. I tried all kinds of tweaks like adjusting the positions of the AP's as well as adjusting transmit power settings for the various bands. I am still tweaking this trying to figure out why the connectivity is spotty for those couple of devices. My next step will be to simply add a 4th AP as it appears to be a coverage issue of the 5/6ghz network. One of the last things I did was change how i mounted the U6+ to be similar to a ceiling mount like it is designed for. That should help that AP work better and we will see if that does it. Setting up good Wifi is damn near a artform when you consider some of these nuances.

Why I would need a 4th ap with Unifi when I functioned fine with the 3 pucks with google wifi I have no idea. My WAF has taking a hit with this change as it is her devices that seem to be impacted. I can sit in the room and get near gigabit speeds on my phone while her tablet drops down to 2.4 and can barely stream youtube.

After all that being said it should work fine and would be very easy to create a IOT network no matter what gear you get. I am not convinced though that there isn't something else causing the problem you are dealing with. It could fix it, but it may not fix anything just as easily, Be prepared to tweak the Unifi network as well.

If you do it considering you have the TP-Link ER605 the most similar setup would likely be something like a UCG-Ultra, UCG-Max, or UCG Fiber and then get either the U7 Pro XG, U7 Pro Wall AP's if you want 6Ghz, or the U7 Lite, U7 In-wall if you don't care about the 6Ghz band. Don't forget something to power devices over POE so either Injectors or a switch like Flex 2.5g 8 PoE

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Totally agree. But it is what it is. Rheem isn't going to change. I'm hoping an IoT SSID from Ubiquity would be better. As it is now, things are having a heck of a time getting back on the network after getting kicked off. Some can see the IoT SSID but not be able to join it. Just thes afternoon found my Traeger was off the network. Now it can' t get back on.

With an AP within 5 feet of the water heater? Same with the Traeger, an AP also within 5 feet. I doubt this is the issue.

Ubiquiti isn't magic. The reason they added the 'Enhanced IoT Connectivity' is because 2.4 GHz stuff wasn't working well with the U7 line of APs. In my case, my devices seem to be working OK on the 2.4 GHz SSID now, but it took a long time. They even now recommend not enabling 'Enhanced IoT Connectivity' unless necessary. I'd check their forum to see if there are reports of issues with your specific devices.

Keep in mind I was thinking that something may be failing as well.

It doesn't make sense that if you made those changes things would start to have problems unless they made you change things so dramatically that you got to where modern devices won't connect because the configuration is so antiquated. There has to be something else.

Something else to consider is that Ubiquity doesn't even allow WPA/WPA2 as a option. The lowest option it allows is WPA2 only. Here is a screen shot of me setting up a new SSID and you can see what the options are for security. What Enhanced IOT does is basically lock the SSID to 2.4Ghz and then disables a bunch of stuff on that screen as you can see everything is unchecked.

In order to replicate what I currently have, it looks like it would run me $1640 to replace my network.

Here is what I configured:

I have a separate garage that needs an 8 port switch and one AP.

Separate Shop that needs 16 ports (9 ports currently in use, might be able to get rid of one and save $90, but then I have no expansion if needed. On second thought, maybe an 8 port and a flex mini. That would leave me with 2 extra ports. Hmmm.) Also needs AP.

Finally, I have a little switch next to my desk that just needs 4 ports.

Main home needs 24 port and 3 APs.

Am I missing anything?

You could try OPEN and see who comes calling.

Only question I would ask is have you thought about 2.5gbps or faster for your house. If you are replacing everything now, it is the time to do it if it is at all a thought.

The big increase for it is with the 24 port switch. It would be a Jump to the Pro Max 24 POE at 799 and then the Pro Max 16 POE at 399.

There are also the Flex 2.5 Mini and Flex 2.5 8 switches.

You may not even need all of them to be upgraded just certain ones that have potential to use more bandwidth like storage systems and such.

Something to consider is if you start to use more then one vlan, that when traffic goes between vlans it always has to hit the router. links to the router can get fairly busy depending on your network design. Layer 3 switches can help ofset that so your router isn't getting hit that way.

Lol. um no thanks. Or maybe do it and set the wireless speed limit to 1kbps :stuck_out_tongue: with wifi isolation on

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From what I've read on the interwebs (including here) I'd skip CyberSecure.

If you might do cameras at some point, you could get the UCG Max w/no memory for now (it's been back in stock lately).

Also, is UI Care really worth it? I've had just one UI support experience (no UI Care) and it was excellent, very helpful and short wait.

I didn’t select any of those. They are there if you want to add them.

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I'm a retired network dude. Did it for about 25 years. Big Cisco shop (a group of hospitals and clinics throughout 3 states.) AP's every 50 feet or so- hundreds of them. I'm familiar with wireless, VLAN's, routing, switching. This one has me stumped.

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Is there a place to play around with the interface without having to buy it first?

Does this sound crazy? Buy a UDR7 and see if I can get at least one 2.4 GHz device to work nicely again? I'm willing to spend the money to check, but will this be enough to test?

As I said above, the specific AP model is a consideration as well. I see you have the U6 Pros selected. Those seem to be pretty stable/without many issues at this point in their lifecycle. In my environment the U7 Pros now seem to be working well, but it has taken a long development cycle for Ubiquiti to get there. I checked their forums, the only Rheem issue I found was 2 years ago and seemed to be a Rheem hardware issue.

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Well that is certainly a way to test. You could also go the UX7 Route as well. If you don't need the 4 ports in the UDR7

Actually 3 since one of the 4 is the WAN port. I mention this because the UDR7 is different than the UDR6.

@Slate MicroCenter carries Unifi equipment. If you have a store close to you you could buy one and try it and return if it doesn’t work.

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Good catch.

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I think I mentioned this and someone indicated that the second WAN port could be repurposed as a LAN port.