Question, I have a bedroom light switch with only a black, red and ground only. It controls the light on the ceiling fan and a wall outlet. There is only one switch to control them. It is in a junction box with 2 other switches (they control the fan and the patio light). The fan switch I have all ready made smart, it has white, black and ground. Is there a reason there is no red? I have installed a lot of switches around the house and, though, not totally technical on electric, I understand that the red is also used for multi switch situations. Thanks.
You are correct that red is frequently used for traveler in a 3-way switch configuration (load controlled from two locations). Also, for the sake of simplicity, let's just assume that bare or green ground wire, and leave that out of the discussion.
Now, I've never seen a electrical cable with only black and red. You sure white isn't connected into a bundle behind the switches? Or is it just snipped or capped?
Key takeaway - colors of wire are often useful clues as to their purpose. But only some investigation with a multimeter will tell you exactly what each wire is. Color schemes tend to be forgotten if they are for some reason inconvenient to an electrician trying to get home at the end of the day.
Pictures are really helpful in diagnosing wiring questions.
You know, on second reading of your post, I suspect that you have a black/white/red going from the switch box to the fan and light. That is, a 3 conductor wire (remember, we're leaving ground out of it since we assume it is connected everywhere as needed) to the fan. So on the surface, it seems like you're going to make this work. The wild card is that outlet wired to the fan's light switch. Can you determine where line (power from the breaker box) comes into this situation - at the fan? at the outlet? At this switch box?
So, it's pretty much a mess. Obviously I'll need a meter. The Patio is all by it's self. Then there are 5 'bundles' coming in. Neutrals are all wrapped together, grounds are wrapped together. The light switch is connected to 2 reds. The fan has 2 blacks and a white.
Correction light is red and black.
I'm not an electrician, so my advice is worth what you paid for it.
My take on the five cables in the box:
-
Power into the box [top right?]
-
Power out of the box - a feed through circuit to another box [2nd from right?]
-
Fan/light - the fan is powered from the black, fan light from the red. The neutral (white) connects to both the fan and fan light in the fixture [4 wire cable, 3rd from right]
-
Patio light - both the red and black wires are likely travellers to another switch that controls the patio light. The other switch would be the one that feeds light directly [bottom 4 wire cable]
-
Wall outlet - does this control one or both outlets in the duplex? It looks to me like one, since this has a 4 wire cable supplying it. The hot (black) wire feeds the always on outlet. The red is a switch leg to power the other (switched) outlet. The neutral (white) and ground (bare) service both outlets in the duplex device. [4 wire cable - 4th from right]
You will still have to do some testing to verify their operation, but this should help guide you in the right direction.
Goid luck, and be careful.
Wayne, you seem really good at this. You must be really good at those games with the garden hoses that are tangled and you need to figure which one goes to which pool. So, my neighbor came by and helped out. The 2 reds (twisted together) are to the fan light and the outlet (which is behind the bed, but I believe they are both switched). Then the black from old switch moved over and added the white neutral.
I do need a meter and some electrical test equipment. But the hardest thing was getting it all back in there. Do they make a small 'junction' strip (like what's in the breaker box) for junction boxes? It would seem safer to screw 5 shorter white (black, ground OR red) wires into a small strip and run 2 or 3 short wires from that.
Thank you guys for your input. I really like this forum.
Not exactly. But I like these Wago lever nuts:
They come in various sizes.
I like these. I have about 5 white wires that are 6 inches long and spliced together. I'll have to consider this if and when I put the last switch in. Thanks for the info.
Thank you @audioantny. No there aren't any junction strips made or allowed for this purpose. Junction strips are only made for control level voltages (< 48V ). in fact the strip would take up more space than wirenuts and constrain where the wires could be placed/pushe to in the box. The Wago lever nuts are an option, but in the end the problem isn't as much the wire nuts as it is all the volume of wire. Either way, take your time, and plan your attack. Electricians usually fit the ground bundle in first, followed by the neutral bundle, then the hot bundle, lastly the wiring devices [technical term for switches, outlets, etc.] taking care to put their attached wires in in kind of a loop/circle.
If you change all those switches to smart devices, the problem gets a LOT worse. Smart switches are substantially larger. If you absolutely can't get all of this in the box, you could look at installing deeper boxes, but that isn't an easy route at all.
Welcome to the joys of DIY electrical work. Remember, don't fear electricity. Respect it. People do stupid stuff when they fear it.
Wago lever nuts are the best! I've used thousands over the years at home and work, so nice to work with. No twisting wires, no worrying about mixing stranded and solid, and another benefit (if you have experience) that I won't mention so as not to condone the action.
This topic was automatically closed 365 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.