Will thread FINALLY give this world an option to Caseta?

Lounge
#1

The absolute bane of my existence in every automation project is three-way dimmers. Perhaps it's my particular brand of anal but I absolutely HATE state switches with three-ways because I want down to always be off and up to always be on. Combine that with the level of brightness indicated not remaining (or ever getting) in sync. I've tried a variety of solutions most recently my disastrous and expensive journey into Innovelli and never had success. I can already hear you now saying "you need Caseta". Yes, except Caseta has two IMHO huge flaws. Flaw number 1) I can't set a default brightness level. Grrrrrrr. I don't want the lights always coming on at full. Nor do I want to always ramp to my level. I like what I like and I want on to mean 34% (or something like that). "Just do it programmatically." Sure, but this always leads to flaw 2) the debounce algorithm stops that from being a pleasant experience. It adds significant delay.

It blows my mind that this still hasn't been solved. I understand the issues with power drain and specs not really supporting this with the existing protocols. But then I thought "wait -- low power draw... mesh... people might just be able to solve this now." So.... what do people think? Are we on the edge of having synced, three-way dimmers now that thread is coming?

#2

Thread is a protocol for getting commands to a device.. it will have no impact on what the device does with the command.

I've got a few 3-way dimmers in my house... one set uses GE-Jasco and the other set is Inovelli. (I have a 3rd set but I've got the 3-way disabled for now.) I also have several 3-way switches too, but you seem to be focused on dimmers.

I don't really understand the problem, but I'll tell you of one I use from dusk to dawn. It's a 3-way on my stairs. The "master" is at the top of the stairs stuffed into a 2 gang box with another "master" for the top hallway. The "aux" for the stairs 3-way is, of course, at the bottom of the stairs. Starting at dusk, any of the 3 motion sensors (top, bottom, mid) trigger the stairway lights to come on. Dusk to 10pm, they come on at 88% and from 10pm to dawn they come on at 15%. How long they remain on is also different before or after 10pm. The motion sensors are triggered at least a dozen times a day that I actually see and register in my head. They could come on 30 more times as the dog wanders around, but that's usually when my eyes are closed. :slight_smile:

My point is, I know that this is working (for me) -- which is probably why I don't fully understand your setup vs mine, but I can't see Thread helping with it... although a specific manufacturer might chose the same time frame to alter their internal response to a command.

#3

Yes... and no. Yes, you're correct that it's protocol for getting commands to a device. However, what is important (and hence the also no) is that it's extremely energy efficient and designed with battery driven devices in mind as one of the use cases. Caseta conquered this with their proprietary protocol and it's part of the reason their solution is the only aux switch on battery solutions. My hypothesis is that once others have tools they too could have "fake" switches which run on batteries and could hold message to hold a synced state. Make sense?

#4

I don't have an issue with automation scenarios (although even there it's INCREDIBLE hard to have the LEDs displaying dimness to sync. I have an issue with the day to day use of them as actual light switches.

#5

It has, for the most part. Other Lutron smart lighting lines like RadioRA 2 can overcome the limitations you mentioned.

The solution is more money, unfortunately. Worth it, IMHO.

#6

That's fair. However RadioRA 2 can also be a pain in its own right. Because it's not meshed and has distance limitation it can be a pain for install in addition to the extreme cost.

Mostly I think that I'm just irked that neither Zigbee nor z-wave has TRUE ability to just say "these two switches are the same effing thing." That is to say the pairing is basically useless. I want Caseta but without (for me) the deal-killer of on=100%. My hope is that thread will give a protocol option to Lutron's RF and allow manufacturers to expand the market significantly.

#7

I hear you. RadioRA 2 software is like a bad dream from windows 95. Although ClearConnect the wireless protocol should work just fine with the ability to setup a couple repeating devices in all but the largest houses (even with Caseta).

Lutron seems to have a good track record for solving problems first in the world of electronic lighting. That exclusivity can come with a price premium. Depending on specific needs, it’s worth it for some.

Hopefully new protocols make things better for consumers in terms of competition and pricing.

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#8

Yes you can.... You can set trims for default high or low (can be bypassed with a double tap)

To adjust the low-end trim (i.e., how dim the lights can get), press down and hold the On and Down buttons at the same time for around six seconds.

The small green LED light should begin flashing.

Press the Down button until the lights are as dim as possible (they might turn off completely, which is normal). Keep pressing the Down button just to confirm that the dimmer switch is as dim as possible.

Next, slowly press the Up button to brighten the lights. Once any flickering stops or the bulb is at a stable dim setting that you’re happy with, press and hold the Off button until the small flashing LED light on the switch turns off.

That’s all there is to it! Repeat the above steps for the high-end trim, but simply reversing the Up and Down buttons.

This should achieve what you want.

#9

Caseta does make a dimmer that has a favorite button. The favorite button can be set to a default brightness level. These dimmers require a neutral and are a little pricey, however they work great and are rock solid.

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#10

Can it be bypassed with an up (or whatever the reverse of a dim is) also?

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#11

Yes, double tap of the up forces it to 100 or you can simply hit the dimmer up buttons (or down as the case may be)

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#12

I know, but only (I think) on the Pico side, right?

#13

No on the physical switch not the pico

#14

Cool. I’ll have to try it. Thanks!

#15

Have you tried the Leviton smart dimmers and remotes. I have several in my house and they keep the last dimmer level. If you can find the dimmer remotes then it is possible to dim from different locations. Home Depot says the dimmer remotes are not available but the remote switches are available.

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