Why Hubitat or why no more?

[pascal.nohl]

@jtp10181

As for the Home app dashboard, I think anyone who has used them would agree they are top notch

There are some excellent alternatives to enhance the HomeKit experience beyond the default Home app. Here are a few noteworthy options:

1. Controller for HomeKit:
   This app takes things a step further by leveraging the LiDAR scanner available on iPhone Pro models. With this feature, you can scan your rooms and create detailed 3D visuals of your home. You can then place control and reporting devices directly on the 3D floorplan, offering a highly intuitive and visually engaging way to manage your smart home.
2. HomeDash:
   HomeDash provides a different perspective by offering insightful summaries. For instance, you can create views showing the total number of windows in your home and, within that, highlight how many are currently open. This is just one example of how HomeDash can bring valuable insights to your HomeKit setup.
3. VIZ Designer:
   If you're looking for complete customization, VIZ Designer allows you to build fully personalized dashboards. You can place various types of controls and visual elements anywhere on your screen, resulting in highly professional-looking dashboards tailored to your needs. However, it’s worth noting that this app comes with a price tag.

Each of these alternatives offers unique features that can complement or enhance your HomeKit ecosystem, depending on your needs and preferences. While some require an upfront investment, the added functionality and customization can be well worth it for users seeking a more advanced and tailored smart home experience.

[pascal.nohl]

@marktheknife

a risk that decisions Apple makes in the future with respect to the Home App, the underlying HomeKit architecture, Matter implementation, etc. will not align with your goals.

This holds true for every company, including Hubitat. However, the big advantage of my current setup is the flexibility offered by Matter devices. I can bind Matter devices to multiple controllers simultaneously. This means that if needed—and if Hubitat provides the solutions I’m looking for—I can quickly bind a device to both an Apple controller and my Hubitat system. This allows me to create one automation in one system and another in the other.

I briefly tested this approach using a smart plug, as plugs are well-supported by both systems, and it worked seamlessly. This flexibility opens up exciting possibilities for integrating the strengths of different platforms while minimizing limitations.

[pascal.nohl]

@bill.d

You might want to take a look at
https://controllerforhomekit.com

They are trying to build better automations

I use it, but I’ve found that the free Eve app—which isn’t limited to Eve devices—does an excellent job. The main limitation, however, is that only the Home app can create automations. Third-party apps, including Eve, rely on scenes because Apple hasn’t opened direct automation creation to them.

My approach, which works well for me, is to create a basic automation in the Home app with just a single trigger and no conditions. I then open that automation in the Eve or Controller for HomeKit app. While these apps don’t offer direct access to the automation itself (they simply prompt you to “Open the Home App”), I’m still able to add additional triggers and conditions within their interfaces.

Once you understand the logic, this method works seamlessly and adds a lot of flexibility to HomeKit automations.

[sburke781]

@pascal.nohl

My approach, which works well for me, is to create a basic automation in the Home app with just a single trigger and no conditions

@pascal.nohl

Once you understand the logic, this method works seamlessly and adds a lot of flexibility to HomeKit automations.

On the surface if feels like it may be useful for others if you could expand on this.... Albeit you have moved off HE.... The approach feels similar to what HE users could likely adopt.

[pascal.nohl]

@sburke781

On the surface if feels like it may be useful for others if you could expand on this

OK, here is a very basic documentation with a nonsense automation just to show how :

Create a new automation in Home and select for example a sensor :

and a state :

then do not select an actuator but scroll down to the bottom and select convert to shortcut :

Now create a shortcut with conditions, actions and more :

Save the automation and open it in the Eve app. As you see the shortcut is not accessible and under scene is stated "Custom", but your shortcut is still there and you can edit it again in the Home app. You see also that there is one trigger and no condition. Click on the trigger (blue part).

Now you can click on 'Add Trigger' as many times you want and add as many triggers as you want.

In the same way you can add conditions :

In the main page of the automation you can now see that there are two triggers and two conditions :

By using this logic you can build an automation that triggers if any of your windows in a room get closed and then check in the conditions if all windows in the room are closed and if so, start heating.

I prefer to trigger this automation if any of the windows in my room get opened or closed (any change of the state) with no condition at all and to write a shortcut that checks in an 'if ... else ... then' conditions if all windows are closed or not and to start or to stop heating depending on the truth of the check.

Sometimes it may be worth using scenes that set individual features instead of shortcuts. Then all of this can be done in the Eve app.

[pascal.nohl]

Here is an example of using scenes in the Eve app :
The trigger is a time on several days of the week, and it runs 2 scenes (one shown +1)

This is the trigger definition :

These are the scenes that are run :

This is the definition for one of the two scenes :

And here you see how the actions in a scene are set. You see that you have access to the individual settings of a device (in my case the temperature and not the mode) :

[aaiyar]

@pascal.nohl

I'm moving this topic to the Lounge because it is more appropriate there. Especially since the last couple posts have been about creating HomeKit "automations" using the Eve app.

[pascal.nohl]

@aaiyar

I'm moving this topic to the Lounge because it is more appropriate there.

Regardless of my decision to transition to Homekit, I want to emphasize that Hubitat remains an excellent system that has met the needs of many users, myself included, depending on individual requirements and preferences.

In light of my evolving setup, I plan to sell two of my three Hubitat hubs while keeping one to continue exploring its capabilities. I’m also considering creating some honest and constructive videos about my experiences, which I hope will be helpful to others.

Thank you to this community for all the shared knowledge and support—it has been invaluable

[sburke781]

@pascal.nohl

I’m also considering creating some honest and constructive videos about my experiences, which I hope will be helpful to others.

While I am yet to check it out... I suspect it will be worth including the (currently beta) new UI in your commentary...

[pascal.nohl]

@sburke781

I suspect it will be worth including the (currently beta) new UI

If I manage to finalize my setup before creating my videos, I will certainly include it. My primary focus, however, will be on comparing the stability and usability of Hubitat with other systems. Hubitat undeniably has the potential to be one of the best smart home platforms on the market. That said, I believe there are areas where it could evolve to better meet user expectations.

Over the years, many user concerns seem to have gone unaddressed, and some development priorities may not fully align with what the community hopes for. For example, the current dashboard lacks the functionality and usability that many users expect, and while Easy Dashboard and Easy Rules are interesting concepts, they fall short of being transformative features. Additionally, launching C8 and C8 Pro hubs without Thread radio support feels like a missed opportunity, especially given the growing adoption of standards like Matter.

For European users, the lack of support for regional heating systems remains a significant drawback. Despite numerous requests, true integration for TRVs has yet to be delivered, and issues like inappropriate tile configurations (e.g., fan settings) and Homekit export quirks persist. That said, Hubitat’s underlying framework is incredibly powerful, and its potential remains vast.

I truly believe that a shift in strategy—focused on clear communication and targeted improvements—could be a game changer for Hubitat. Addressing the needs of European users with proper TRV support and delivering a modern, intuitive dashboard would go a long way. Even outsourcing certain developments, if internal resources are stretched, could help. Home Assistant is an example of how a once highly technical system can evolve into something both powerful and user-friendly, though it has its own challenges.

As for me, I am currently trying to build a smart home system that balances stability, usability, and accessibility for my family and friends. My focus is on stable standards like Hue, Apple Homekit, and Matter over Thread. Matter’s ability to share devices is particularly promising, and my hope is to create "nice-to-have" automations with Hubitat that complement the "must-have" automations in Homekit, without compromising core functionality if something goes wrong.

Ultimately, Hubitat remains a compelling system for those who enjoy diving into its capabilities and don’t have specific European requirements. With time and attention, it can deliver powerful results, but there’s still room to make it more accessible and universally appealing.

[sburke781]

I think your "headline" comments say it all... (nice work in providing these precise summaries btw).

@pascal.nohl

Over the years, many user concerns seem to have gone unaddressed

@pascal.nohl

For European users, the lack of support for regional heating systems remains a significant drawback.

@pascal.nohl

As for me, I am currently trying to build a smart home system that balances stability, usability, and accessibility for my family and friends.

@pascal.nohl

Hubitat remains a compelling system for those who enjoy diving into its capabilities

It feels like your issues. while valid and understandable, remain limited to EU users. This does not reduce their impact, I'm sure if the same were true in the U.S. the response would be different, though not less important....

Ultimately... I hope the focus might shift over time to increasing support for EU devices.... as much as that does not impact me, I hope to see that increase over time in order to see more EU users join the broader user base.

It will also add more users to those I can converse with at.... different times... throught the night...

[pascal.nohl]

To provide some context, I am a senior professional in building management, specializing in Building Management Systems (known as GTC in Europe). I oversee a portfolio that includes complexes of 33,000 sqm, 6,000 sqm, and 4,000 sqm.

When I evaluate Hubitat, I recognize a system that has clearly been designed and developed by professionals with strong expertise in automation. However, a major issue is the lack of knowledge about European systems and standards. Additionally, there seems to be a consistent oversight of the importance of user interfaces and intuitive user experiences—elements that are crucial in the private consumer market.

In professional environments, technical capabilities often take precedence. But for private users, usability and simplicity are what determine whether a system succeeds or fails. This is an area where Hubitat could significantly improve and broaden its appeal.

[sburke781]

Ooohhh.. while an IT professional.... I am certainly not in the same category in being able to assess HA systems....

All I can add is.... "go easy...." Beyond that, I can only suggest engaging with the HE staff... You seem to hold quite broad and informed opinions that they may find useful.... In the right context.

[TheGerman]

I've been using Hubitat for many years and my reason for initially switching was, that I did not want to rely on my home automation to function based on a vendor's goodwill in regards to them providing a free service. Also, if my internet goes out, my complete automation will work just fine.
I am still not aware of any other automation solution that gives me that independence.

[pascal.nohl]

@TheGerman

I am still not aware of any other automation solution that gives me that independence.

Independence in smart home systems is often an illusion rather than a reality. While it’s true that if Hubitat were to shut down tomorrow, your system would continue to operate locally, you would lose access to critical services like cloud backups or official support. Similarly, if Hubitat decided to implement a subscription fee, such as $50 a month to keep the system functional, users might find themselves in the same difficult position that Tado or Arlo customers have experienced. In that sense, Hubitat users are dependent on the company, just as I would be with Apple.

However, looking at Apple's plans for spring 2025, it’s clear they intend to go further into home automation, making it one of their priorities. While no company is immune to failure, the likelihood of Apple going bankrupt is comparatively low.

In my professional experience, I’ve dealt extensively with risk management, and to be honest, I believe you’re as safe with Hubitat as with Apple. The true game changer here is Matter, particularly Matter over Thread. This emerging standard allows you to switch central systems or even use multiple hubs in parallel while maintaining compatibility with your devices. The beauty of Matter lies in its decentralized approach: devices communicate locally, and multiple hubs on the same network can take over seamlessly if one fails, regardless of the manufacturer.

This level of independence feels much safer than relying solely on Hubitat’s Matter compatibility, which remains tied to their proprietary ecosystem. Matter’s promise of manufacturer-agnostic device interoperability and redundancy aligns better with the principles of risk management and long-term reliability.

[rlithgow1]

@pascal.nohl

While it’s true that if Hubitat were to shut down tomorrow, your system would continue to operate locally, you would lose access to critical services like cloud backups or official support.

This is pretty much true of any company. As to remote access, VPN works just fine. (yes you would lose cloud backups but I think hubitat would do one final push to everyone to allow that if they were shuttering).

[TheGerman]

Yes, agree, but I meant the dependence on the actual automation. I tried Samsung SmartThings, Kasa's solution and a few others before switching to Hubitat - the challenge was not the long term viability of either of these companies, but the reliability of their servers processing my automation. Samsung e.g. took several seconds to process a motion detection and switch on a light, most of the time, their servers were either down or slow and there is exactly zero incentive for them to change it. Similar problem with Kasa - worked often, but slow and unreliably. Add my own ISP reliability on top of it and I got a lot of discussions with the wife, why e.g. the lights on the stairs to the basement stopped switching on when she opened the door....
Regarding Hubitat (and others) making sure they survive in the longer term, yes, there is a good chance that there will be an annual subscription fee e.g. for updates. You can bet, this will come with Apple, and it will be a crazy steep fee. Google will not offer it for free either. Currently Hubitat is (afaik) only surviving on the sales of new gear and their subscription model (I signed up for the subscription, not because I need cloud backups or could not figure out, how to get remote access, but to support an organization that I want to be profitable and in long term support of a nice product).
Lat, but not least, yes, "Matter" may matter at some point in the (far) future, but I highly doubt that this will get huge support from all the Chinese manufacturers that already produce dirt cheap Zigbee and Zwave products and have their complete line of products aligned to that. I also doubt that it would be a major undertaking for Hubitat to adopt the "Matter" framework into their product - should that ever become a necessity, which I doubt at this time.
Hope that clarifies - I don't think that Hubitat would be in any way more financially stable than a Google or Apple

[pascal.nohl]

@TheGerman

but I highly doubt that this will get huge support from all the Chinese manufacturers that already produce dirt cheap Zigbee and Zwave products

Chinese manufacturers are undeniably the fastest when it comes to adopting and delivering new standards. A quick look at platforms like AliExpress highlights the speed at which Matter-compatible devices are entering the market. For instance, this screenshot showcases just a fraction of what’s already available:

There are now countless affordable Matter devices on the market, with new models appearing every month. Take, for example, this motorized valve with Matter support—an exotic device that highlights the diversity of options available :

Some manufacturers are still transitioning, offering ‘bridge-dependent’ Matter devices or bundling bridges for as little as €10, capable of managing multiple devices. This shows their commitment to the Matter ecosystem, even if native Matter devices are still catching up.

On my end, I’ve been testing devices with announced firmware updates for Matter compatibility. For example, I’ve purchased Homekit-compatible devices like cameras, even though the current Matter standard doesn’t yet fully support video. However, with Matter 1.5 expected in spring, video support may finally become a reality.

That said, I’ve personally decided to prioritize European and even German-made devices from brands like Eve and Bosch. From the moment I unbox them, the difference in quality and build is tangible. These devices not only feel robust but have performed flawlessly so far, with near-instantaneous response times and zero failures. Everything operates locally, and the redundancy is seamless. For instance, when I unplugged my Apple TV (one of my Homekit hubs), my HomePod Mini took over instantly. This level of reliability means I no longer feel the need to keep a backup hub on standby.

Regarding Apple, I don’t believe they’ll introduce subscription fees to maintain system functionality. Their business model is fundamentally different. For example, Apple’s Secure Video storage offers a tiered approach: free storage for one camera with 50GB, five cameras with 200GB, and unlimited cameras with 2TB of storage for under €20 per month. This storage plan serves multiple purposes—iPhone backups, extending Mac storage, and more—while video footage doesn’t count toward the storage limit.

Apple’s model is less about direct fees and more about creating a tightly integrated, secure ecosystem. Features like unlocking your Mac with your Apple Watch, copying text on your iPhone and pasting it on your Mac, and the seamless handoff between devices are what make the Apple ecosystem unique. While Apple hardware may not always surpass that of premium Android or other manufacturers, no competitor offers such a deeply integrated and secure experience across devices. That is Apple’s true strength and the foundation of its business model.

[pascal.nohl]

@rlithgow1

This is pretty much true of any company.

Agree. However, if such a scenario were to occur, many of the devices you currently own might lack drivers for other systems or could be incompatible by design. For example, Aqara Zigbee devices often perform poorly with Zigbee hubs that aren’t Aqara’s own.

This is where Matter and Thread devices stand out—they allow you to choose any Matter-compatible hub and reuse your devices across platforms.

That said, going with Matter is a decision that comes with trade-offs. Some devices offer more features in their native ecosystem than in Matter mode. For me, however, Matter’s features are sufficient to achieve my automation goals. I’m also willing to accept certain limitations for the added benefits of Matter, such as its enhanced safety, local processing, and interoperability.

I’ve changed my system multiple times in the past, and each transition came with additional costs, as some devices became incompatible or unreliable. My decision to embrace Matter is driven by a desire to break free from this cycle and establish a system that offers long-term compatibility and flexibility.

[TheGerman]

lol - that same desire to have "the final solution" drives people to switch from e.g. Smartthings to Hubitat. Pretty much all current device communication standards are covered, it is solid as a rock, pretty much a setup and forget solution. I only bought new devices in the last five or six years because I expanded my home automation setup and removed defective or way too slow responding Z-Wave devices. It is great that Matter will save the world, I just don't see a real need for it (for myself). Now, if I was new to the whole home automation topic, sure, Matter is the latest and greatest, comes with amazing promises and probably would be my choice as well.