webCoRE vs RM?

[mboisson]

@bertabcd1234

Have you considered writing your own custom apps? Rule Machine and webCoRE exist so you don't have to, but both are GUI-based editors.

I did write a zigbee driver for Stelpro Allia thermostats. I am aware I can write raw code, but it did not seem required for the kind of rules I wanted to write which are, after all rather simple (ifs, elses, require expressions, triggers, variable maths and actions). Not the end of the world to do it through drop downs, and it is idiot proof, you can hardly make typos.

[djh_wolf]

I find the UI of webcore to be far more intuitive/flexible.

But as advised above, horses / courses.

[sysrvd]

WebCore dummy here...
Does WC depend on an internet connection (cloud)?
When you search "WebCore" on the internet, it speaks of pricing and a cloud connection.
I just updated today to the latest release and tried to Add Built-in App and it couldn't find Webcore.

[thebearmay]

If you just updated, wait a bit new apps lazy load. As to internet required, yes and no. The default configuration uses an internet web server as the editor host, there is, however, an option to host your own (Hubitat will be assuming control of this hosting for the new implementation). Regardless of which editor hosting option you choose, the pistons run locally on the hub.

[sysrvd]

Had to boot the hub and it showed up.

[jlv]

@mboisson

I am curious to know if webCoRE allows to do things that RM can’t

In general, they pretty much have the same basic abilities for creating automations.

There are a few things you can't do as easily or directly in RM that you can do in webCoRE. E.g., string manipulation, as in this example piston I had on SmartThings.

Help me convert this piston with string manipulation to create a nice notification

One of the last things I've got left from ST days is a set of pistons to tell me about door or windows being opened I was able to get them to produce nice notifications, like this: ALERT: Front Door Contact, and Mudroom Garage Door are open while Main Floor HVAC is heating on Thu, Apr 21 2022 @ 8:58:23 AM EDT The key to this was the string manipulation done in line 35, where webCoRE did a great job of listifying the triggeredDevices list and I was able to insert "is" or "are" depending upon t…

My solution for that on Hubitat has been to use a custom app and a Rule together. The end result is that it works better - the logic in the piston wasn't quite correct.

(the problem with my piston stems from webCoRE ending up being a general programming language, which is one of it's strengths. Ironically, that RM is not a general programming language is one of it's strengths)

[bertabcd1234]

@sysrvd

Does WC depend on an internet connection (cloud)?

To create and edit pistons, yes, at least within the default configuration (it is possible to run this on your own hardware locally with some effort). To run them, no; that is local on Hubitat.

Certain features do require the internet, like email (I think that's still a feature?) or push notifications (as they do in any app), but that should be expected.

@sysrvd

When you search "WebCore" on the internet, it speaks of pricing and a cloud connection.

I just Googled it and found the official https://webcore.co site as the top result, where I don't see any mention of pricing. There has never been any charge to use it. Not sure what else you may have found, but that's where I'd look!

[Madcodger]

If the wiki that @bertabcd1234 found accurately describes webcore as it will exist on HE, I suggest the HE staff make that a sticky. Personally, I had no earthly idea what webcore was, or what it might do for a HE user. I suspect that's true for many others.

I'm intrigued by this addition, and as someone who has found Rule Machine powerful but not intuitive to use, I'm looking forward to trying webcore out. I just had no idea what all the excitement was about, and suspect that was true for many others.

[ktd]

Been playing around with webCoRE a little but now and webCoRE is not for me.
Dont like the UI and creating pistons is not as fast (for me) as making rules.

But I do like that we have the option to chose and if webCoRE can attract new users, that will make Hubitat grow and continue to evolve.

[vitaliy_kh]

@Madcodger

who has found Rule Machine powerful but not intuitive to use

RM Logic is very clear and intuitive however GUI isn't.

[eaton.blumenstein]

agreed, but the new RM is a lot better, lots of impovements. I wish that the old RM would let you convert them to the new RM engine.
with that being said, WebCore is generaly not going to change since the code seems more text based, you will just get new functions in the future i assume

[LibraSun]

The only time I prefer WebCoRE is for doing:

• complex variable math that would require too many steps in RM;
• populating a variable with the response from an HTTP GET request, something I never succeeded in doing with RM;
• parsing JSON payloads, which WC handles natively and neatly;
• sharing automation workflows easily outside of my own hub/HE environment.

[BorrisTheCat]

@LibraSun

sharing automation workflows easily outside of my own hub/HE environment.

RM does do this now through the export file, the only issue is we can't share like a txt doc here so you can't share it within the forum.

[fieldsjm]

@LibraSun

The only time I prefer WebCoRE is for doing:

• complex variable math that would require too many steps in RM;
• populating a variable with the response from an HTTP GET request, something I never succeeded in doing with RM;
• parsing JSON payloads, which WC handles natively and neatly;
• sharing automation workflows easily outside of my own hub/HE environment.

I will echo those sentiments. I've used WC for years on ST before coming to HE.

I still use both RM and WC. Different UI's and my preference is still WC but I am getting used to RM. I do prefer WC for HTTP calls due to the response handling and RM doesn't (or at least didn't) have options for adding headers (authorization, contentType, etc) to HTTP post.

[fdelima]

Very passionate topic...

I am a avid user of Webcore have been using it on my old ST platform and for the last 2 years on HE.. All my automation is Webcore driven.. However, I'm so intrigued by the great comments on RM.. I have a rather simple question :

Understanding that Webcore is now resident in HE, the same as RM.. I assume Webcore remains written in Groovy.. Is there a device behavioural or performance difference between the 2 ?

[bertabcd1234]

I don't think anyone has objectively measured anything, but theoretically, most things should be faster with webCoRE on HE because all custom SmartThings code (like webCoRE) runs in the cloud, where as all code runs locally on Hubitat. So, at least those delays, no matter how slight under good conditions, should be gone.

It certainly is possible to write a bunch of pistons (or rules or apps or any kind) that will overwhelm your hub, and since Hubitat is reasonably-powered hardware intended for your own use and not a bunch of giant "cloud" servers, this might be "easier" to do (though I wouldn't be surprised if some of ST's well known cloud problems were a result of hosting arbitrary user code, and perhaps the reason they're changing how their entire development model works). A smaller, purpose-built app is likely to be more efficient in some sense, but for most uses, this shouldn't matter much.

It's also possible to do something on either platform, local or not, that will overwhelm your Zigbee or Z-Wave meshes. Neither of these problems are particular to webCoRE or RM, and they're a bit different from concerns about the apps themselves. But the general idea is that both give you enough power to make doing questionable things possible and perhaps even easy, so...be careful not to do those things. (Looping forever every few seconds when you really just want to subscribe to/wait for an event instead, refreshing your entire Z-Wave network all day long, or a number of other questionable things you might be able to think of...but again, I wouldn't be worried about normal automations.)

[StephenH]

Would webCoRE be suitable for use with an IP camera? That would be something I could use that I can't do with Hubitat and Rule machine now.

[marktheknife]

In what way?

WebCoRE is an automation execution engine, like rule machine.

So either one of them could, for example, trigger an automation based on an http call from an IP camera, or send an http get/post to an IP camera.

[StephenH]

In what way? In being able to view an IP camera on a dashboard tile for example. Even if it were periodic snapshots for lower bandwidth as opposed to streaming video.

It would be really nice to be able to view one of my IP cameras if HSM is triggered while I am away. Possibly, even just email snapshots from the webcams to me if HSM is triggered so I can see what is happening.

[scoob8000]

I'm partial to webcore because it's what I mostly used. I was always put off by rule machine. It just seemed cumbersome to click back and forth between pages.

But once I got the hang of it, it's really not that bad.

I still use them both today.