Using Intermatic HA09 remote with Hubitat

I'm trying to get the Intermatic HA09 remote to work with Hubitat. There does seem to be some success doing this, however I'm having problems, and I'm not sure where the issues are.

This remote seems to actually be a Z-wave controller, as the instructions indicate it is able to Include and Exclude devices. It also has the ability to be a secondary controller, that either gets both the network and channel information, or just the network information.

The instructions are made a little confusing, because they have instructions based on their other Z-wave devices, and not instructions for generic Z-wave devices.

I know this is an older Z-wave device, that isn't officially supported by Hubitat, but seeing as others have gotten it to work in Hubitat and Smartthings, it should be possible. One thing I hadn't thought of before, was in regards to security. My guess is that this remote doesn't support S2, so my question in regards to this, does the remote tell the primary controller which device to turn on/off, or does it communicate directly to the device? I'm guessing, based on what I have read, that it gets the network information from the primary, and just communicates directly with the device using that information. If that is the case, then devices have been paired with Hubitat using S2 security, will never work with this remote, because it doesn't even know about it. I'm thinking if this is true, that if I turn the security off, then the remote might then be able to communicate with the devices.

I'll try to experiment a bit with this, but I do have some questions I hope might be answered in the community, or by the HE support.

If I make this a secondary controller, and have it transfer network information AND channel information, what is HE sending as far as the channel information is concerned? Is there any way to specify this in HE? It seems that up to 16 devices can be added per channel, but they will all get the same command (On/Off/Dim) from the On/Off buttons in the remote. This seems like a group, or scene.

If just using network information, I have to manually pair each channel to devices, but the confusion for me is that the programming instructions talk about using a Program button on the device (which seems to be Intermatic specific) while doing this, but it isn't talking about the Include/Exclude button. Looking up some of the devices, it seems that the Program button on the devices refers to the same button that does On/Off as well (or just On in the case of a switch). It seems that all I have to do is operate the device, while doing this programming on the controller, but thus far it hasn't worked.

Any ideas/insights?

I still have my old HA09 and O7 controllers. I haven't been able to get them to work with any other modern platform. I havent found any tips to get them to connec twith HE yet if you have any.

I was able to get the HA09 working with Hubitat, but a few things are definitely different from modern zwave remotes. Like I said before, the HA09 is not a remote persay, it is a full zwave controller on it's own.

I'm doing this from memory, so some stuff maybe foggy. You need to sync the controller with network information only, not with the device mapping. I can't remember which one you need to start the inclusion/pairing on first, but it definitely only works one way, either it needs to be started on the remote, or the hubitat, it will not work the other way around.

It may not work initially, so try a few times. You know it's successful when the HA09 remote blinks the green led. I also put the remote right next to the hubitat when doing this. Once you get those synced up then you have to pair your switches, in which you follow the instructions for the HA09. Something of note, the remote will not show up in the connected devices, and in the zwave identification page, where it shows the device ids, it will show up as a partially connected device, or something like that. It will never fully connect like other devices, so you have to get rid of that entry, or it will block any other zwave device inclusion. You may have to get rid of this if you have failures syncing the HA09 as well.

I got this working with 2 out of 3 switches. The Ultrapro switches and the Minoston plug-in outlets. The ZEN switches WILL NOT work. This part is a bit confusing, because you are kind of syncing the switch to the network information already copied from the Hubitat. This is not an inclusion. The Ultrapro switches when they are already paired with a zwave controller, will not go into inclusion mode, BUT you still pair them with the HA09, by tapping once. Same with the Minoston outlet, but you can put those into inclusion mode (if memory serves) and it will pair with the HA09. I believe the HA09 is acting as a secondary controller, sorta, but talks to the devices directly, it doesn't go through the Hubitat. The ZEN switches cannot be paired in this way unfortunately, they just don't work, I talked with their support, and they don't support direct device communication from another controller, even though that is technically part of the zwave feature set.

The other thing mentioned by another user on this forum, is there may be a limit on which device ids will actually pair with the HA09. I had the first 6 wave IDs working with the HA09, but I knew that might be a problem so specifically added the devices to the Hubitat in that order. But I don't know if that's a real limitation.

The Intermatic Z-wave devices had another button, that would put the devices into a pairing mode with the controller, it wasn't exactly the same as we would call inclusion today, and these buttons don't exist on modern z-wave devices that I can tell, so you are kind of guessing how each device pairs, or if it does/doesn't at all, like the ZEN switches. The manuals for the Intermatic remotes are necessary (but can be found on the net), as the device pairing has to be done exactly like they say in the manual, and there are different ways you have to start the pairing, depending on whether it is acting as the primary or secondary controller (just network information).

Also, don't expect anything but On/Off to work, I don't have dimming switches, so I couldn't test this out anyway, but I don't think that the dimming would work any way. No keypress states either, like Tap vs Hold, etc.. Oh, almost forgot, it will not work if you have security enabled on the switches, as that didn't exist when this remote/controller was around. If you have added the switches to the Hubitat with security, you will need to exclude and include w/o security enabled.

The main thing to remember, at least for me, was that after the HA09 downloaded network information from the Hubitat, it doesn't really interact with the Hubitat at all. When you use the remote, nothing will ever show up in the logs of the Hubitat directly. If a device is turned on/off, that device will report status to the Hubitat, but you will never see something from the remote, since it never gets added as a remote in Hubitat. It is a controller talking directly to the device, not through the Hubitat, and NOT a remote in zwave terminology, it is a full fledged zwave controller with buttons, just without fancy automation the Hubitat has.

I got one of the Hank 4-button remotes, and it acts completely differently in Hubitat. It actually gets added to the devices list, and I can designate specific automation on each key, and type of keypress. I can also see when the remote button is pressed.

That being said, I still use the HA09, because I like the hard buttons, and I specifically use it in my bedroom, in the dark where I can just feel which buttons I need to press, I can also feel the orientation, and it is big enough that it doesn't get lost easily. The Hank remote I use in my living room, and the only way to tell orientation, is to either look at it, or if you can find the charging port with your fingers, but it isn't immediately obvious, even then you have to remember what's assigned to the four buttons, and unlike the HA09, they aren't conveniently in rows, they are oriented with 3 buttons in a ring, with the 4th being in the middle of the ring. I am also constantly looking for where it is, since it's so small.

Sorry for the long rambling brain dump, but I know it can be a challenge to get these working. Once I figured out how the syncing worked with the Hubitat, and how the devices synced with the HA09, it was actually pretty fairly easy, it was just experimenting until I found the right sequence that was difficult, and interpreting the old instructions vs new devices. Hope it helps.