Yeah, makes ZERO sense. Apparently we're so concerned about foreign router manufacturers releasing firmware with malicious security vulnerabilities that to prevent it from happening, we're giving them a head's up that they should ramp up their efforts even more. Absolute clown show.
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Not a significant market. But IoT is...
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We are living in a connected world and a huge distributed supply chain. One weak link and the chain and it leads to what we are seeing today. This isn't a flaw in capitalism but something can can be addressed in the market place and hasn't or worst wont due to geopolitical reasons. If we can have Internet Protocol standards, database connectivity standards, WiFi standards, why not compliance standards for the front door of our networks with the rules being written by the industry?
If the smoke detector industry can do it with expiration dates for their devices, food industry with expiration dates of packaged goods, maybe the equipment makers and their support teams could do the same? This would raise awareness to the consumer. But right now has anyone ever really received a end of support for any of their electronic items outside of say cloud services being shut down?
I think the first step of stopping new product is the correct one and let the industry come up with working models that both benefit them for sales and service but also the consumer and can be documented and published. This process takes time.
I'm a bit confused. Several of the posts imply that this ban only affects WiFi routers, e.g., "separate the radio", etc.
My router is a Fortinet Fortigate 40F firewall (i.e., no WiFi capability on this appliance). I also have a 2-node ASUS WiFi mesh network (Pro XT12) running in AP mode and a Xfinity XB7 gateway (which has WiFi but it's turned off) running in bridge mode.
Is the 40F excluded from the ban because it's not consumer grade and/or doesn't have WiFi?
Most of the ISP gateway devices have WiFi support, and most of us (except maybe Starlink customers) have one. Are these devices part of this ban? If they are, it seems to me that the biggest impact to consumers will be these gateways. How big of a security risk to the country is my WiFi mesh if I don't have Internet connectivity?
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Combo modem/routers are included.
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but are the ones given to you from your isp considered commercial vs residential?
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As I read it, intent matters "primarily intended for residential or small office" use. So it affects all?
I agree with everything you said up until the last paragraph. I'm aware of how the government is structured, and I agree that the buck stops at the top of any organization or government, even if the chief executive doesn't directly make any given decision.
Most everyone will use whatever leverage they have to influence the outcome of whatever they're trying to achieve. Trump used his powers in order to influence other countries to do what he wanted, for the good of our country. Of course, the wisdom of those actions can be debated, but it's a perfectly valid negotiating tactic that every one of us uses.
However, the introduction of the word "shakedown" is not factual, it is subjective as the word has negative connotations. Using the leverage at your disposal, if you threatened to withhold your child's allowance until he cleaned up his room, would that be a "shakedown" or simply good parenting?
My point simply is that there's no need to interject political bias into a subject like this. People may disagree on the best way to solve the problem, or even the nature of the problem itself. Lay out the facts and let people come to their own conclusions. Especially in a technically-oriented forum like this.
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Perhaps that is its actual intended purpose. If the ban was indeed intended to force manufacturers to pay attention and do something about the problem, is that a bad thing? Bans (like tariffs) can be reversed with the stroke of a pen. Sometimes people (or companies or governments) have to be pressured into action through tactics like that. Maybe that's the case here. I have no idea, but it's plausible.
I haven't the slightest idea if Trump has any direct involvement in this. Love him or hate him, but I think he's a very shrewd negotiator. I'd rather have him on my side than on the opposing side.
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As someone said above, regardless of whether this was the president’s personal pet project, it’s his administration and the shakedown label seems accurate (not to mention consistent with how he’s done business for decades).
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YOU are injecting political bias into this conversation, not me.
Shakedown is a term that is absolutely relevant, appropriate, and correct in this situation. The fact that you (rather obviously) like Trump and like what he's doing totally is clouding your views.
My comments were not at all for or against Trump. They were just stating what is happening.
If you think "shakedown" has bad connotations, then you might want to reconsider how much you adore this policy. The administration is clearly creating an existential threat for any manufacturer of consumer routers (the US is a major market, so an inability to sell products here is going to be extremely damaging monetarily)--and the exact results that are desired are not clearly defined yet.
In the mean time, it's going to have a strongly adverse impact on everyone in the US wanting to upgrade their routers to newer technology and, when the ban on updates hits, it will have a severe impact on everyone (no security updates). Much like with the tariffs, the actual results will depend on what finally ends up happening (is the policy retained, are exemptions widely available, etc.).
Businesses absolutely DO NOT like this kind of chaos. A business can't make major 10+ year commitments that are materially based on factors that change every few days or even every few years.
What IS happening fast is that other countries (including the EU) are drastically changing THEIR plans. They are working out trade agreements with each other to reduce or eliminate dependencies on the United States. There is a massive push to create AI and cloud infrastructure that is within the EU and wholly independent of the United States. The same, albeit more slowly, seems to be happening with defense/military. The US has been a large market but it is rapidly on track to become an isolated market--340 million out of about 8.5 billion people (a mere 4%).
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Let me be clear here, I wasn't accusing you of anything and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear about that. My comments were really about the article in question injecting political bias.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion about that. And perhaps it is a "shakedown" of a bunch of companies that deserve it. I don't know. I agree with most of your points, but you don't know how all this is going to play out. My gut feeling is that it's probably a tactic to get companies to the negotiating table. I could very well be wrong, but doing nothing isn't (or shouldn't be, IMO) an option.
I assure you however, my views are not clouded by anything.
Whether I like Trump or not is irrelevant, and not germane to this or any other technical discussion. I can recognize and admire a particular quality in someone without necessarily liking or disliking that person personally, or liking or disliking everything that person does.
What I don't like is politics getting inserted into every conversation people seem to have nowadays.
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The router makers should just gift Trump an assortment of solid gold routers as, among others, the Swiss and Apple have similarly done. Leverage works both ways. Problem solved.
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Then you shouldn't have inserted them in this conversation.
YOU were the one that made this all about politics--the article was accurate and you had the political bias.
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It also sounds like you’re suggesting, essentially, that the ends justify the means.
I disagree strongly with that line of reasoning.
I really don’t mean to put words into your mouth though, so apologies if I have.
But this is becoming a distraction from the point of the discussion. Peace out.
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Ha! Indeed, that seems to be the way things work now.
A million bucks=A pardon
A Royal 747-8i = A military base in Idaho
Large crypto buy=Dinner at the White House
and the list goes on
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Sometimes the ends justify the means, sometimes not. You can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat is a perfectly reasonable way to deal with that type of problem. Burning your house down to get rid of termites is not. The phrase itself does not imply right or wrong.
Is the threat of onerous or even senseless regulation or policies a valid means of getting companies to the negotiating table? If no real harm is done other than persuasion, probably. Industries rarely come together and do the right thing on their own. We wouldn't need the FDA, OSHA, CPB or many other agencies if that weren't the case.
Agree that it's a distraction though. My intended point exactly. Have a great weekend.
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With all the strong responses on this thread, i am hoping all the US citizens who responded are; registered to vote in the US, own a US passport just in case it is needed to be able to vote and knows where to vote in November.
If any US citizen needs help ensuring their voice will be heard through voting in a US election, my pm’s are open and i will do the best i can to ensure you can voice your responce at the poll.
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Pretty sure that is not the word you intended.
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@marcusvrsilva your experience and feedback could be very helpful to this conversation.
Since the federal US governement is currently an authoritarian dictatorship, I'm pretty sure this is an excuse to cover the actual intent of preventing the use of VPN and other means of evading mass surveillance and control by them. So the logical answer for a US resident is to get a new router now if you are even close to needing one, and then don't upgrade the firmware after the ban is in effect. You will most likely be fine until the end of the current regime, but if you're not or concerned that you're not "safe" then you should add an open-source firewall.
For those that don't have the skill to add additional open-source protection, well they were likely never going to be protected in the first place. I know from first-hand experience that the vast majority either have no clue about routers and their security, or are not concerned. These are the targets they are aiming at, not us here.
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