Teach me as if I were a child - starting from scratch

🎬 Get Started Novice Help
1

Hello,

I'm very new to HE - I've had my hub for 2 days.

What I've done before:
I've had several Wifi dimmer switches and a few wifi outlets for a couple of years without issue - controlled using Globe Suite. They're from 3 different manufacturers, but all work together under several different apps. I think they're all Tuya compatible - I have 1 outlet paired with the Tuya app and that seems to work fine.

I want to expand out my automation to include several future projects that wouldn't be compatible with what I was using before, thus I decided on HE, as I like the idea of everything being local.

My HE journey so far:

I've been able to connect a couple of zigbee devices (a dimmer knob thing with a button and a 4-button scene switch.)

They seem to be working as expected in testing by looking at logs, but I haven't been able to control anything with them.

I was able to use a Globe suite integration within GH to get everything into GH.

I can't seem to figure out how to get any further than this ...

I tried installing the GH community and built-in apps - I think I did it right, but then I don't really know what to do - all the forum posts are talking about things I don't yet understand how to do, or what they mean.

I also looked at a thread discussing access to Tuya devices on the Tuya app using some developer credentials, but I got lost early on in trying to follow the directions - again I don't understand it enough to follow what I'm seeing.

What I want to do, somehow, as a starter project is:

  • Use my Zigbee devices to control my existing wifi devices.

In particular, I want to use the 4-button device to control a Room light brightness (different buttons/presses for pre-set brightness), the Fan on/off only, and a secondary light built into the fan in my ensuite bathroom.
Currently, all the controls are outside the room and due to the layout and a pocket door, I cannot move any hardwired controls to inside of the bathroom.

The other device I want to control the on/off and brightness of my Livingroom lights for somewhere else in the room and without opening an app.

Oh, and I'm really not interested in voice commands.

At this time I don't care too much how it is done, I just want it to work so I can understand the basics of Hubitat usage and have a better lighting system.

So is someone willing to explain it as if I'm a kid?

TIA!

2

Have you taken a look at the videos in the Hubitat YouTube channel?

3 Likes
3

Yeah, I'm not sure it is worth it for you to try and get the IoT wifi devices even working in Hubitat, since you have so few of them. Hubitat is a local hub, forcing IoT devices into Hubitat goes against the whole idea of owning a local hub that does not need the internet and cloud servers to control devices.

Zigbee Outlets are cheap to replace for your outlets, but your several Wifi dimmers will be a cost to replace. I think you should save all the hassles and just replace them.

That said, besides getting access to the Tuya cloud directly with a developer account and the community integration for it, there are tricks.

I use a few wifi outlets out in my shed to control pool stuff since Zigbee will not reach out there, so I am using a roundabout way to add them by leveraging the SmartThings cloud "linked services", and using HubiThing Replica (pulls devices from SmartThings into Hubitat). I pull them into the SmartThings app (no hub needed) using the Smart Life linked service in SmartThings, where they become SmartThings devices. Then I use HubiThings Replica to pull those in as Hubitat devices for direct control. There is Globe linked service, but you can usually add those devices to several different apps, like Tuya Smart or Smart Life as well.

That will not work with dimmers, as the linked services on SmartThings will not pull in more complex devices like dimmers.

You can also use virtual devices in Hubitat that you share with Alexa or Google, and then use those as triggers to change the device states using routines on the Alexa/Google side. They usually need to be a virtual contact sensor, virtual lock, or virtual motion sensor. There are community drivers out there that will create a virtual switch that acts like another form of sensor, for this purpose. Like this one:

You make a routine in Alexa, for example, that triggers from the virtual switch contact changing to "open" to run a routine that controls the IoT device. You turn on the switch in Hubitat, it also changes the contact attribute in that switch to open, the Alexa routine uses the open contact sensor as a trigger, to change your wifi device to be On. You make another routine in Alexa for when the contact changes to closed, and you turn you wifi switch off in that routine.

Dimmers in general do not work with these methods, as you would need 100 virtual devices in Hubitat and 100 routines on the Alexa side, to account for all dim levels. You could create maybe four virtual devices, and use those for a high, medium, low, and off on a dimmer, by setting the dimmer in the routine to like 100%, 65%, 35%, and then have a switch for on/off with two more routines. So for a dimmer with three levels, it will take three virtual devices to set levels, and one device to turn it on or off. Probably not worth it.

Then there are also Tasmota drivers, where you have to flash the chips on the switches so you can gain local wifi control over them, and use the Tasmota drivers to control them. If you don't like the Tuya developer option, flashing device hardware probably isn't where you want to go either.

Hopefully some of this makes sense. Ultimately, the easiest way to fix this issue is to buy local mesh devices to replace the Wifi devices.

3 Likes
4

I'm not sure a child (particularly a teenager.... or me) would read that much useful information... :wink:

2 Likes
5

I know, my post was already lengthy just describing options available, to go into every button push and screenshots for details would be a bit much for one post.

I figured if there are questions, they can be specifically addressed. That is why I suggest just replacing the wifi devices, that is as simple as it gets.

3 Likes
6

Don't feel it was a back-handed critique, more one person who writes similarly lengthy responses making a friendly jibe at someone clearly helping someone else get up-to-speed.... Now back to my simple-yet-lengthy response.... :slight_smile:

1 Like
8

To add to @user2574 's more detailed explanation... With another lengthy response.... another way to look at it (or confuse you :slight_smile: ) would be...:

  • Temporarily putting aside Home Automation... If you think about devices that do/can connect to your local network, including through Wi-Fi.... PC's/Laptops, phones, speakers, cameras, TV's, various Home Automation hubs.... they can "talk" whatever "language" they like over that network, your router does not limit the types of communication that can occur (in a general sense)
  • This is great for what it opens up in terms of the types of devices and use-cases the local network more broadly can handle, e.g. applications on PC's able to "talk" to one another however they choose, PC applications connecting to printers, cameras communicating back to a hub, Wi-Fi-based HA devices either communicating back to a local proprietary hub or over the Internet to a cloud-hosted server, etc...
  • So the possibilities for Wi-FI / LAN integrations are endless... right....? Well yes.... but... They typically rely on either an Internet connection to a cloud-hosted service that might be retired at some point in the future, or require a proprietary hub to add to the growing collection of "pucks".... Or support for both may be retired at some point....
  • One of the "pure" reasons Zigbee (and Z-Wave) exist is that major HA companies had an ironic light-bulb moment where they realised they needed to have a standard way that common device types could communicate, including their state information as well as issuing of commands and any responses. So light bulbs reported their state like this, and accepted commands to turn then on and off in this way... And everyone was happy.... Well kind
    of.... It certainly opens up the possibility of hubs like HE to have generic drivers for device types based on these standard methods of communication... something not possible with the un-regulated communication methods for Wi-Fi / LAN devices...
  • As the standards were being defined... some wanted their own take on this new "standard"... But that is less relevant to this explanation...
  • With things like Zigbee or Z-Wave the communication that occurs is tailored / restricted to the use-cases it supports, such as home automation,. whereas Wi-Fi/LAN devices are often very specific to how the manufacturer choose to manage their comm's... Often the reason they require either a proprietary hub or cloud-hosted service to interpret the communications from the device.

Simples.... :wink:

2 Likes
9

As someone who now has more than 200 devices on my Hubitat C8 Pro, my advice is to start small, but do your research before investing your hard earned money.

Decide whether you want to use proprietary devices like Lutron, Hue, and Ring? II have all three of those in my mix of devices.

The primary communication protocols are WiFi, Zigbee, and Z-wave. Recently, Matter devices have been introduced to the market. They use some type of WiFi or Zigbee (Thread).

Be careful about using WiFi devices unless you have a premium router that can handle a lot of devices. Some lesser models can start to have issues with more than 50 devices. While 50 sounds like a lot, with computers, tablets, cell phones, and voice assistants all having WiFi connections a lesser router can easily be overwhelmed.

Also, before purchasing devices, please check the list of supported devices.

Every few days, someone will post a thread saying they purchased a device that is not on the supported list and ask that someone develop a driver for it . Sometimes this is possible, sometimes it isn't.

Also, sometimes cheap is not good. There are some bargains out there such as many of the Third Reality devices. If you have an application that is critical, make sure you purchase from one of the top brands such as Aeotec and Zooz. They are more expensive, but are likely to be more reliable in the long run.

Many people purchase Aqara devices because they are cheap. If you purchase a newer model that is Zigbee 3.0 compliant, it should work well, but some older devices can be problematic. Buyer beware!

You will see many Tuya Smart devices in the supported list. Tuya develops the technology, but not the devices. You will find Tuya devices sold under a variety of brands; some are better than others.

3 Likes
10

Thanks to everyone for your advise! (And I'm also prone to long messages, so ,,,, enjoy?)

I hope to try a few more things when I get some free time I can dedicate to the system.

In the mean time, some quick comments on some of the general concepts, in no particular order:

  • I am very much trying to start small.
  • I've been watching several videos before and after receiving the hub. I've found that most gloss over the finer points of setting up devices - maybe I haven't found the right video yet? - eg, I can easily connect my zigbee devices, but the setup page once connected is still foreign - Looks like I can send it commands for testing, but how does 'Configure' work?. It'll probably make much more sense once I get something connected that is able to be controlled.
  • My problem with the Tuya developer account method is more with setting up the account to get the information from Tuya, as the instructions are apparently from how it was done several years ago and is now a bit different, and I'm not familiar with several of the terms used - though I haven't had the chance to put significant effort into it yet.
  • moving forward, I plan to find more compatible devices using one of the built-in communication methods.
  • Prior to ordering my hub, I hadn't been using Alexa, google home, HA, smart things, or any other of the common automation interfaces, so I've been having to try to learn those as I go as well.
  • I really have no interest in using voice commands. I'd much rather have a physical interface for manual triggering of events.
  • I'm much more comfortable flashing firmware for Tasmota than I am with the software integration part of the Tuya process.
  • I have Electronic hardware design training and experience, and some limited programming training for firmware on simple microcontrollers, but it is from the late 90's and I haven't used it in a work capacity for 20+ years. I more recently got back into the electronics with some simple, stand alone, Arduino devices, but that's only been occasional usage over the past 5 - 8 years or so. Even the original Arduino processor is more powerful than most of what I worked with in the past. (And the IoT wasn't around back then, so everything related to that is brand new to me.)
  • The high level topology of the various networks are pretty easy for me to understand, its the low level stuff that I'm still wrapping my head around.

I'm quite sure at least some of my existing WIFI devices are on the Tasmota compatible device list (Need to confirm the part numbers), so I think I'll give that route a try. I have a couple of un-used devices I can experiment with and figure out how to flash them without destroying their enclosures.

I also have a couple more devices on order that are Zigbee, so I'll be able to play around with those once I receive them.

If anyone has any specific suggestions for sites or videos clarifying how the basics work - even if not specifically Hubitat - I'd appreciate it. Often the posts I've read assume a basic understanding I haven't learned yet ... I must have missed something important, but I don't even know what to search for.

I'm very appreciative of the community's willing to assist a newbie ....
Perhaps I should have titles this thread with 'Teach me as if I'm an old guy'

Again, thanks to everyone that has responded - I'm (slowly) getting to grips with the system!

Cheers, and thanks for putting up with my meandering posts :wink:

1 Like
11

The Hubitat Youtube videos linked above are a good starting point, although many are now slightly dated due to a recent user interface update. But the basics are still there.

The Documentation here: Hubitat Documentation - Home | Hubitat Documentation is pretty good, and up-to-date.

For your one example above, you have a 4 button switch. What would you like to do with that? Turn on an outlet, bulb, or what? You will need to define what you want to do, then use something like a Basic Rule, or Button Controller to tell the button to activate something like a bulb or outlet when a certain button is pressed.

I am a long time user, but it still takes me some thought and some planning to map out what I want to do. Sometimes just writing it out on paper (or notepad on a computer) can help you to think through what should happen, why, when, and so on. Here is one generic example.

  • When I push button #3
  • I want the kitchen outlet to turn on

Start simple. From there you can start adding more logic as needed.

  • When I push button #3
  • Between Sunrise and Sunset
  • I want the kitchen outlet to turn on
1 Like