Stick with Zwave or consider other options

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The heart of my smarthome is currently the HE C-8. I have mostly Zwave devices, since that's what I chose as the primary protocol for gear when I started building my mesh about a decade ago. At the time, 2.4ghz was extremely busy here, and I was a little concerned about adding Zigbee in to already-crowded spectrum. I also didn't want to consider wifi devices because I didn't trust them (and with a lot of manufacturers, rightly so). Fast forward to today, though, and I'm in a slightly less crowed environment. Most of the equipment I care about in terms of connectivity has moved from 2.4ghz wifi to 5ghz and even 6ghz. I've also created a specific vlan for devices which need wifi but I don't trust to be able to see the rest of my network or the Internet at large. I've also purchased a couple of Zigbee products (mostly light bulbs) over the last couple of years. I also have dipped my toes into Lutron Caseta and Kasa. So I want to keep my options open.

Anyway, I have a few Inovelli plug-in zwave dimmers which have worked well, but I'm starting to have issues with them. So far as I can tell, the "smart" part of them works fine. They communicate with my HE just fine, but one of them seems to have a failure of the a/c switching part of their circuitry (haven't cracked it open yet to see if it looks like a relay or mosfet or whatever). So, I need to replace it along with another two which seem to have issues with switching gear after a power outage until I unplug/replug them. I was planning to go zwave again, since that's probably the strongest mesh I have in the house, but with zigbee still being an option, thread and matter out there and gaining momentum, and even decent wifi options being something I'm willing to trust, should I be looking at options other than zwave?

Just to include more details, the core of my smarthome is my C-8, but we have a mixed protocol home. Generally, I have the HE be the one that talks to the hardware, but I do use Google Homes all over the house for voice control and I have an Apple TV setup to act as the Homekit hub through the HE's Homekit integration. Making this all work together can be a chore at times, but it does work. You might say pick a dang camp, but I've never been happy going all in on a platform. I carry both and android phone and an iPhone. I literally use Macs, Windows, and Linux almost every day (both at home and work), so yeah, I'm crazy. But in the end, I just need it to work, especially when it comes to making sure it works every time for my wife. Maybe matter will eventually be the one to rule them all, especially if it can give me the ability to control everything locally like Homekit. I hate relying on the cloud to connect to our Google Homes.

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I'd begin by pursuing Inovelli to advise you on replacing those devices.

As to "You might say pick a dang camp, but" -- I'm with you. I have some of everything too, including one you didn't mention, Node-Red. :smiley:

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that's the beauty of HE, it can handle it all. i have a mix of z-wave and zigbee, and my determining factor was cost.

If you have a solid z-wave mesh, i would say stick with z-wave. if cost becomes the factor, would your outlet be close enough to connect to HE? if yes, then go for cost savings. if you may need to add some extenders/repeaters along the way though, consider the total cost vs just getting another z-wave device (if cost is a concern). all devices eventually fail, so regardless of the protocol being used, as long as it's compatible with HE it'll work

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I couldn't imagine home automation without Zigbee, there are so many interesting and affordable devices. They have been very reliable for me with the exception of one device that's in a tough spot.

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Just as an aside, a lot of us mix use. I have z-wave, zigbee, clear connect, and wifi devices.

For wifi I simply recommend you set your wifi for channel 6 and below while setting zigbee at 20 and higher. Even with a saturated area (neighbors and what not) you're really only concerned about the closest which is going to be your ap's. You in general should be fine.

As for wifi devices, All I can recommend is using ones with a local API and not cloud based.

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I would pick the best device for the job, whether Z-wave, Zigbee or Matter. I use all of those in my home.

I would qualify "best" by a few criteria.

  • Availability of a device or type of device. Matter is seriously lacking in certain categories, for example. (tons of outlets/plugs though)
  • Cost for the features on a particular device, in other words value.
  • How well the device will play with other devices, will it wreck my Z-wave mesh? Will it join and not interfere with Wifi?

Right now, going by what I see on Amazon, I would probably buy a Minoston 800 series Z-wave dimmer plug. That is especially given your "crowded 2.4ghz" qualification in your statement above.

For a second choice, I would probably try a Kasa/Tapo Matter plug. I have a couple of them for outdoor use, and they seem to work fine. I bought them mostly to Beta test Hubitat firmware, but they have worked fine for my holiday lighting use. It is a low cost way to try out Matter, and see if is viable for your use case.

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My Lutron Caseta lighting system is by far my most reliable and robust portion of my smart home. I still 'pat myself on the back' for ripping out all Z-Wave devices and installing Lutron everywhere in the house. I use Hubitat's Zigbee radio for my sensors (leak, motion, contact) and finally use a Philips Hue bridge for a few smart bulbs in table/floor lamps. This combination has been incredibly reliable and performant over the past few years. Plus, all of it integrates with Apple Home very nicely.

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I would agree with these comments on Lutron Caseta. I don't have a Hue bridge (I do have some Hue motion sensors directly connected via Zigbee) and I don't have any Apple Home.

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I would agree except for the following points.

  • They have a very limited portfolio of products. Try to find a Lutron door lock, for example. That said, what they do have works great.
  • The price has SOARED in recent years. These devices might be reliable, but they certainly aren't 3x more reliable than my Z-wave devices. The switches are outrageously priced compared to something like a Zooz or even Inovelli.
  • Their devices lack features like scenes and multi-press on the buttons.

Anymore I use Lutron for Pico remotes, and not much else. I can't justify things like an $80 outlet for outdoor lights, for example.

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Could Long Range Z-Wave be a player? Perhaps a phased replaced? Still compatible.

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Agreed - The devices that Lutron does support, work 100% of the time, without issue. This was my #1 priority after having to deal with flaky early Z-Wave devices. I am sure they are much better now, but if you look through the forum, the vast majority of mesh issues seem to still be with Z-Wave devices. :wink:

I use Zigbee for my door locks, which have been incredibly reliable and problem free.

Traditional Caseta switches and dimmers can be bought for <$50USD all the time. This really is not what I would called "SOARING" prices over the past few years. Their new Diva and Claro products are pricey for sure. I have no desire to replace all of my original Caseta switches, dimmers, fan controllers, and Pico remotes.

Yes, there are cheaper Z-Wave devices on the market - but then we're back to reliability, confusion over encryption (None, S0, S2 - and that changes depending on the hub your running - Buy an external Z-Wave stick to pair without encryption, etc...), ghost elimination from failed pairings (buy an external Z-wave stick...), Z-Wave Mesh vs Z-Wave Long range pairing, SmartStart issues, etc...

Lutron literally 'just works', every time, all of the time.

Pico remotes are supported by Hubitat with pushed, held, and double tapped events. Asking folks in the house to try to remember what a double tap, triple tap, etc... does on a light switch is level of complexity I choose to avoid. Much simpler to focus on automating the house versus complicated manual controls, IMHO.

Also, Lutron Caseta brings with it integration with Apple HomeKit, Amazon Alexa, Google Home, Logitech Harmony Hub, Hubitat, SmartThings, Home Assistant, Node-RED, Ring, Sonos, Ecobee, Honeywell Home, Carrier, etc... With a Lutron Lighting System, one is getting more than just some light switches and dimmers. :wink:

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I researched all the options really carefully and decided Lutron was the best way to go. It looks fantastic.

I also found that my ad-hoc collection of Zwave and Zigbee devices, collected while figuring that out, were overperforming my expectations to the point that I postponed going with Lutron.

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