SmartStart Issues

[velvetfoot]

The only reason I'm using SmartStart is to include Z-Wave LR devices, which is mandatory.

I've got 81 LR devices included so far. All rules are acting as they should.

The problem is SmartStart.

One day, I had a fully populated SmartStart list, and the next, 60 of the 81 entries had a status of "Not Included, Node Pending".

I tried the usual reboot, shutdown/power cycle thing to no avail. I have not done a restore from a hub backup, yet.
edit: I just restored from a recent cloud backup, which didn't help. I'm reluctant to go further back in time and potentially lose a lot of work, just to experiment.

Things are working as they should, but I'm concerned that one day the SmartStart entries will rise from the dead and start including, or whatever, and screw up the Z-Wave.

I currently have the erroneous not included/pending entries marked as disabled in @jtp10181 's app. But, perhaps I should delete ALL SmartStart entries? After all, Hubitat only seems to use it to include new devices, right?

I'm not sure I see any use for SmartStart after the inclusion process is complete.

My other beef is that I'm now up to 9 Long Range ghosts that apparently cannot be removed. Seems to have no effect, but I can't really tell except by how things are working.

My desire is that someone from @support_team could address these issues. I think @bcopeland is the expert, but perhaps @bobbyD or @gopher.ny or @bravenel or anyone could help.

[mavrrick58]

I was under the impression that once the SmartStart entry in @jtp10181 app was disabled it didn't show up in SmartStart to include.

I personally wouldn't delete them, just disable them. If you ever do get into a state were you need to add everything back having all of the smartstart stuff already loaded and saved can be very helpful. At the very least maybe backup the file that the app created.

I had to reload stuff myself and it was much easier just enabling and disabling the entries in @jtp10181's app then adding all of the devices back again manually. Just make sure you only do a few devices at a time. I found only having 4 devices enabled at a time worked best for me.

I fought with Ghosts as well and if I remember right there was no good way to delete them at the time. I think I was told just to do a full reboot and they would clear themselves. Have you fully power cycled the hub including pulling the power for 30 sec to a min?

[velvetfoot]

Initially I tried to load, about 14 new devices at the same time, which totally hosed the system. Even when I deleted the smartstart entries and began again, it wouldn't work until I removed the power (line) wire from all but one of the devices. That worked. Would 4 work? I don't know.

Can you go into a little more detail on the jam you got into where you had to re-include devices? Are you saying that a cloud backup wouldn't restore the devices? And, that smartstart into is not contained in a cloud backup, which I thought contained z-wave radio info. Would it restore the devices but not the smartstart info?

Yes, I tried the shutdown/power cycle thing. I think I tried a soft reset as well. Someone, not at Hubitat, told me, as I recall, that removal was not possible, but that negative effects were unlikely.

Do you still have those ghosts hanging around?

[mavrrick58]

l suffered major issues when migrating from a C8 to a C8 Pro with a few LR devices. This migration was right after the LR support was added. It was a mess and probably could of been handled better with what I know now. I suffered from a few bugs that compounded to make it a complete mess at the time. In the end though I ended up having to redo everything on my zwave radio. If i remember right there was also a need to migrate my hub with the cloud backup for migration, and then perform a second restore taken from my old hub without radio data.

I don't have the cloud backup service, but i do think it is backed up there. I can't speak to the Smartstart data.

No ghosts now as like I said I ended up reloading everything zwave related.

@velvetfoot

Would 4 work? I don't know.

That was the sweet spot i found for including as fast as possible. I found that generally speaking with 4 enabled at a time, i couldn't cycle through them fast enough to actually have more then 4 going at a time. It worked reliably and was consistent in my case.

[velvetfoot]

Just to be a little more graphic, this is a screen of what I'm talking about. It was totally populated previously. No idea what happened.

[velvetfoot]

As an experiment, I deleted one smart start entry for a plug which only participates in a dashboard app. I then excluded the plug the normal way. Check devices page: still at 9 ghosts. Unplugged device. Restored smartstart from a backup via @jtp10181 's app. Undisabled ss entry. Plugged in device. SS included the device.

Not gonna do that for 60 devices, never mind doing the swap apps dance for each one. Just so I can have a pretty looking SmartStart list.

I really wish someone at @support_team would address this.

[jtp10181]

@velvetfoot

I currently have the erroneous not included/pending entries marked as disabled in @jtp10181 's app. But, perhaps I should delete ALL SmartStart entries? After all, Hubitat only seems to use it to include new devices, right?

I'm not sure I see any use for SmartStart after the inclusion process is complete.

@mavrrick58

I was under the impression that once the SmartStart entry in @jtp10181 app was disabled it didn't show up in SmartStart to include.

Correct, if you disable it in my app, to the hub it is deleted. The hub has no enabled/disabled state so I delete it from the hub and store a copy of it within the app states (also also an automatic backup in file manager in case app is ever deleted).

There is no real use for SS once the device is included, the only advantage as pointed out is if you need to re-include something you already have the info saved.

[velvetfoot]

@jtp10181

There is no real use for SS once the device is included, the only advantage as pointed out is if you need to re-include something you already have the info saved.

I'd point out that it's easy to overwrite a SS backup in the app with, say, a blank one.
I've downloaded the json file the the date in the name to my laptop where it's safe, lol.
File manager on the hub may be equally safe, although, I may, or may not, have some kind of cloud backup for a few directories on the laptop....maybe, lol.

[jtp10181]

There are two backup files, one is the automatic disabled list backup and the other is a manual backup. The disabled backup is always your current disabled list, so if you delete everything, then yes it will be blank. Its purpose is to re-load the disabled items if you needed to delete and reinstall the app for some reason.

The manual backup can be run any time and then once its in the file manager you can do whatever you want with it. Exporting it to the file manager was just the easy way to save it somewhere.

[wforddonald]

I'm also having a bunch of trouble with SmartStart. For me, adding one toggle switch via QR code scan in the app is creating all these Z-Wave targets in the data base that don't seem to be real. These will compound for hundreds until I turn off the device. What the hey is this?

[jtp10181]

Its your device trying to pair and failing.
Power off the device.
Shut down the hub, unplug for 30 seconds the plug back in.
Once hub boots up again check the z-wave details page, make sure it is clean (no ghost nodes).

Check your SS entry and make sure you have valid settings for boot mode and Grants.

Power up the device and watch logs, it should start pairing.

[wforddonald]

OK, good tip! For me, it appears only S2 unauth/auth grants work to join this device. Any combination of S0 or No Security do not allow a join. Boot mode set to LR as that's the whole point of this device.

[jtp10181]

LR Requires S2 so if you had unchecked S2 but left it on LR that is why it kept failing.

I would recommend just leaving the grant settings at the defaults when you scan the QR code. I would leave S2 enabled for all sensor devices especially, to ensure accurate data (S2 has better error checking).

I suppose I could also add some warnings in my app if you try to do silly things...