Smart switches

This is quite interesting. I know I don't have an attic switch. It's a fixture way far away from the entrance with no switch and a pull chain :slight_smile:

Course it's also an older house. Maybe I should add a switch to that. Or not. When I bought the place the inspector didn't say anything about it. Of course I live in West Virginia so some things are a little different here :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Yeah, it's not true everywhere, and it wouldn't surprise me if West Virginia hadn't adopted it. It's just one of those things to check with your local jurisdiction.

Sorry. The question is still relevant, and your answer appreciated, but... among other reasons, I withdrew it to take the time to read back through all the comments and links so I'm not annoying everyone asking things already answered twice. I was willing to inconvenience people for a quick off-the-top-of-your-head type answer, but this has long since grown into a bigger topic that I ever expected. If I don't find where the answer(s) had already been given to me, then I will regroup, explain my needs again coherently (and everyone has helped me clarify what those are!) and ask the question again.

I should point you to resources you may not be aware of. A couple acutally, but I have personal interest in the first. Home: On with Richard Gunther is a great podcast to learn about home automation products, techniques and other info. The Internet of Things Podcast with Stacey Higgenbotham and Kevin Tofel is another. For a mix of consumer and professional product prospectives, Hometech.fm with Jason Griffing and Seth Johnson is also very helpful.

@patrick was just interviewed by Richard in EP# 104 and Lutron products with Hubitat were specifically discussed. Stacey also talked about Hubitat a few weeks ago, and the guys at Hometech had a shorter interview with Patrick a few weeks before that.

I listen to every episode and it really helps you get an understanding of where home automation has been and where it's going. You'll have a much clearer picture of it all if you combine all these sources of info (Podcasts, newsletters, forums, etc.).

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@SmartHomePrimer, as you seem to be really knowledgeable about Lutron's line of products I was hoping to pick your brain a bit. I have numerous Caseta products now (started off with them as they were compatible with the Wink Hub 2), but I am running into a problem as I am encroaching on the 50 device limit of my hub. I am at the point where I need to consider adding another pro hub. Before I do I would like to look at the RA2 (RA2 Select). I have reviewed some of Lutron's literature and still have a few questions. With the RA2 select, I would need a main repeater along with a bridge hub? As far as I can tell the PD-6WCL's and pico's are compatible with RA2 (Select?) while my plug in dimmers aren't, do you know if that is indeed the case? I am interested in the RA2 as they seem to have more options for remotes, although hard to find north of the 49th let alone in Edmonton, have you used any different models other than the standard casetta pico's and are they only compatible with the RA2's? Sorry for the barrage of questions, I am just loving the Lutron integration and it is solving so many of my problems... Thanks!

[Like the initial post, this is a cross-post, with added mentions and the bit towards JD.]

Since everyone has helped me evolve and clarify my needs and just exactly what I'm actually trying to accomplish and why, I'm going to do a mini reboot and lay those needs out again, just to make sure I'm not missing something... And hopefully get more focused answers. The needs are really the same as before, even though there's some big "on paper" differences than my initial post.

As a TL;DNR, I want to implement smart device user controls so that they appear and operate as if the house had been designed with color smart lighting in mind to begin with. :grinning: As such, I want to maintain both the simplicity and ease of dumb switches, as well as maintain their functionality. In other words, I'll probably add touch-screens/control panels later, but they will be relegated to a couple of high activity/seating areas and not used as the primary day-to-day way to do the simple stuff (essentially, they'll be admin panels for family/guests :wink:)

As I see it, I can go two routes. The first could be summarized as "replace all dumb switches with smart switches than can control smart devices and/OR the power", as follows (all these numbered "1.n", where my second way of accomplishing things below will be "2.n"):

1.1a) Replace existing dumb switches with powered switches for smart devices (eg to control Hue bulbs - not controlling power).

1.1b) I want to maintain the existing functionality of cutting power to the circuit, for maintenance/emergencies (eg an "air gap").

1.2) I want to add new switches exist to the house where they don't currently [exist] for controlling smart devices (eg Hue lights).

1.3) I want them to match (including the Bonus item below).

1.4) Some of these switches will need be able to do dimming, so there should be an option for 1.1a, 1.1b AND 1.2 as dimmers (though dimmers may be acceptable everywhere... but, I like the Lutron design options with both dimmer and two-button).

Bonus; I also have a couple dumb devices that I would like to control, and would want the switch to control the power for those. Since there's only a couple (I believe literally two), this is no longer a priority for me.

I'm getting the feeling that even with mix-matching, getting these requirements would be tricky at best, and only with matching by overall style, as per @JDRoberts suggestion of paddle-style switches. If someone presented another option that qualifies, then I must humbly apologize, for I have missed it (but I'm going back through them). Seems the tricky part is wired controllers to signal smart devices.

@JDRoberts... Well, just FWIW, paddle-style switches are maybe back on the table (though, I may prefer route #2 below). Second, I am CURRENTLY going through the FAQs and such, but it's taking me a bit because... 1) Against my preference I really should do some actual work (well, what they think of as "actual work"... I keep telling them I am working!), and 2) A lot of it is confusing me. Any rate, you linked to a FAQ that mentions the Gocontrol 3-Way Wall Accessory Switch. Is that anything that's remotely suited for my needs?

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The second route (which really isn't about "smart devices") is to maintain separate dumb switches, but not display them prominently on my walls (if I'm picky about wall art... why should I display switches on my walls?!):

edit: All of these can be summarized as "put remotes (eg for Hue bulbs) in front of recessed dumb switches". /edit

2,1) Replace the existing switch boxes in the wall with a "recessed" model (maybe like this??),

2.2) Recess the existing switches (possibly with miniaturized models, if that's a thing),

2.3) Get battery switches for controlling smart devices (eg Hue bulbs) for everywhere (except the two dumb-devices in "Bonus" above),

2.4) Get (or, hypothetically, make) a wall holder for the battery switches that allow easy removal AND have a cut-out back (like the Hue dimmer or Pico mount, but with a hole in the backside - see below for why),

2.5) Place the battery switches over top the recessed dumb switches, where the hole in the mount allows access to the recessed switches behind.

If I want to get at the switch, I pull off the remote, easy. The only issue I can think of (aside from effort and cost) is if I someone walks off with the remote,, it might look ugly/weird. But, they will mostly live on the wall, and I'll pretend like I have the skill to not to do a hack job on the electrical box and in-line switches.

Just FYI, with route #2, I'm leaning towards Lutron (thanks, @SmartHomePrimer [and Mike.Maxwell!]). If I'm not mistaken (for a change) Caseta/Pico allows all of the first route except 1.1a (and half of 1.1b), including Bonus, so it might be nice in case I come across any other places where I need control the power. Or for that matter, scale back my plans on color lighting and just use dumb bulbs.

Again... In general, what I want to accomplish is to design my smart lighting - using color smart bulbs - to be look and work as if the house had been made for them. No superfluous switches, or bulbous mounts over a switch, or mismatched controls, or child-proof locks. If I can't do it from the "smart switch" route, I'll just build the smart remotes over the switches... At least, until someone tells me why I that would be a dumbass thing to try (annnnd... queue JD :wink:).

I believe that I read in another post from @bravenel that you can pair multiple Caseta hubs to hubitat.

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I know I can add a second Caseta hub, I'm just not sure if it would be worth it to jump to RA2 Select to open up my options for remotes and switches leaving my Caseta hub to control just the products that aren't compatible.

RA2 Select probably doesn't make sense for you. First of all, it will not control CasΓ©ta devices (except Pico). So any dimmers/switches would have to be Maestro, and cost about twice as much. Also, RA2 Select does not support Lutron RA2 keypads, only Pico.

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Ok, that definitely helps to make my decision much easier. Thanks Bruce!

Response on air gap requirement already posted elsewhere:

Dumb light switches + control panel? - Devices & Integrations - SmartThings Community

I really think that until some basic foundation is formed we should try to keep this in a single community forum. Doesn't matter which one otherwise it's just going to make my head hurt even more trying to keep up and follow all of the recommendations.

That's pretty much what @mike.maxwell has been talking about with the picos. It looks nice, it works fine, as far as control of smart bulbs for on/off/dim. What you don't get is a color wheel. You can change color by voice or you can set scenes and use the buttons on the picos to select among the scenes.

If your home automation system goes down, you can use the original switch which you've hidden underneath the picos for on/off, but of course you don't have color control.

There aren't really any good inexpensive wall mount color control devices at the present time. If scenes aren't enough for you, you can just use a Wi-Fi phone with the hue bridge and whatever Hue bridge control app you like. I don't know about other devices in the hubitat context.

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And personally, I still like the remotec 90 (zwave, battery-operated) as a scene selector:

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p.s. I think it will be helpful to everyone if you refer to Lutron pico devices as either "picos" or "pico remotes." But not just "remotes." When you say just "remote" we have to ask you a bunch of other questions to figure out exactly what features you are trying to get, as that particular term is used in different ways by different manufacturers.

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Also, I forgot – – has anyone told you that you can have the picos custom engraved? So you aren't stuck with any particular set of icons or words. It does cost more, but if aesthetics are really important to you that is an option. @bravenel can probably say more about that.

I understand that, and definitely approve of it, but I literally can't do cross posting.

The way my brain works, information is stored contextually. If I personally write the same thing in two different places I no longer know where it was posted at all. It's one of the main reasons I write FAQs to begin with. So I just can't answer the same question with the same answer in two different places or I'll lose both.

, I know, I'm weird. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I know. At this point, it's almost like I'm obligated to not make anything easy. But, I already posted the initial question to ST, so I figured I'd XPost my major restatement of it.

Personally I prefer here than on ST, just because it's currently my intended platform.

I didn't pick up on mike.maxwell doing that, but I don't have any major issues with that. It certainly checks all my boxes, and basically opens up the entire world of switches that control smart devices.... With the Caseta/Pico allowing the most flexibility of any I've seen so far.

OMG, that is so awesome and First World silly at the same time! SmartHomePrimer mentioned a lot of customization available for the already expensive RA2, but not Pico. They have other custom color for Picos? Will definitely be checking into that!

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I mentioned custom engraving, not custom color. As far as I know the color options are white, black, or almond, but you'd have to look into that. Custom engraving definitely:

IMG_5258IMG_5256IMG_5257

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You can get custom engraving on a lot of switches and wall plates and custom colors. You can get anything for the right amount of money :smile:

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John Childress is an electrical inspector who posts on a number of forums. I've always loved his tagline:

I can build anything you want if you draw a picture of it on the back of a big enough check.

:sunglasses:

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Those four button models are on the Caseta/Pico side, and not RA2? I didn't see them on their website or on Amazon, but I did see RA2 ones that looked similar....