Schlage lock survey

If your theory were in any way plausible, this would mean that anybody who migrated from wink to st as well would likely be having the same issues. Unless the 2 were very coincidentally writing the exact same variable. And not to mention the odds of that 1 particular variable not being cleared on a factory reset...

As for a device corrupting traffic, everybody would have to be having that same device repeating the signal between the hub ad lock. It would be one hell of a coincidence.

There's a number of posts from people who feel (as do I) that the HE hub has a weak z-wave radio compared to some of these other hubs. I think it far more likely that the issue stems from there since we're dealing with a secure device.

I personally never moved my locks to HE because of all the reported issues. I kept them on ST (with rboy's DTH) and used hubconnect.

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I don't know about that; however, Hubitat's z-wave implementation appears to be less tolerant of misbehaving devices.

For example, ~4 years ago (when they were still part of Quirky), a Wink hardware engineer told me that Wink had to build software workarounds for Schlage locks with questionable firmware (FW 6.8) hitting the z-wave network with spurious responses to lock/unlock commands. The appearance to the end-user is that there is nothing wrong with the lock, while in reality, there is.

In situations like this, device issues crop up only after migration to HE; naturally, one tends to blame the new platform because the device worked on the previous platform.

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While it might be a contributing factor, it doesn't explain why moving the hub to within inches of the lock doesn't immediately solve the difficulty pairing issue. I'm with @aaiyar on this; Schlage was a Wink integration partner and as such probably worked extensively with Wink to resolve this type of issue. The HE devs certainly aren't getting the same level of attention (if any) from Schlage.

Also, the weak radio theory doesn't explain why once paired I've not had any issues with either lock even though I haven't added any mains powered z-wave devices since pairing them. I'm not sure we'll ever know the root cause but if I knew then what I know now I would have selected a different lock or would have gone with the Zigbee version.

This may very well be. I’m attempting to find commonality. If you disagree with the premise, then that’s fine. Don’t bother answering. The question is why some people have no problem, and some people have problems constantly. There must be differences. And because there doesn’t seem to be any actual accounting of those differences I thought it might help to actually try to figure it out.

I have no doubt the Schlage locks have crappy Zwave implementation. But ST and the rboy app/driver seems to get around this. Both my locks are on FW 7.1 and worked flawlessly with rboy. But I’d wager that driver and app are doing things behind the scenes to accommodate.

Tbh, yesterday I found a good deal on a couple Yale locks. I’ll be replacing my schlages. I hope to offer one to HE to see if they can figure out what’s going on.

Schlage seemingly has indicated they don’t gaf about integration. Call them about a problem lock anymore and their response is “does the touch panel work? Yes? Then lock is fine”. So I doubt Schlage/Allegion gives Wink any time either. :confused:

The "we don't GAF" attitude may be a recent development and there's not much left of Wink as a company to provide support for. When I was having battery issues with my original (FW 7.2) lock support was very responsive and shipped me a replacement free of charge. They had me keep the defective one and I ended up using the it on my garage side entry door. Ironically, battery life has been fine on the HE hub despite being terrible on Wink. But both locks (FW 7.2 and 8.1) were a bugger to pair to the HE hub and required I bring the hub to within inches of the lock and even after doing that it took perhaps a dozen pairing attempts, factory resets, etc. before it worked. I don't think I did anything specific that resulted in success; it was probably a timing or sheer dumb luck thing. Both locks were within a foot of a couple of z-wave switches so it's not a proximity to repeaters thing--I really think there's something fundamentally wrong with the locks.

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If you are referring to the current situation, you're 100% correct. However, in 2014, Schlage was an official Wink integration partner, i.e. with Schlage's blessing, Wink made money from Schlage lock sales. And I know that Wink engineers built software workarounds for the Schlage z-wave locks prevalent at the time.

That has clearly fallen off because Wink doesn't support the new z-wave+ Schlage locks for features like lock code management.

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Hubitat has a weaker implementation of zwave radio. This isn't debatable. This doesn't require RF testing to verify this is common sense for anyone who has used ALL other platforms. NONE of them require you to bring the hub and lock together to pair them, and the ONLY variable that changed was the hub.

Not Smarththings
Not Wink
Not Vera
Not Homeseer
Not HomeAssistant
Not OpenHab

None of them. It's not a "mesh" issue as the staff routinely claims. Zwave radios are designed to communicate with end nodes (battery devices) AS WELL AS repeating devices, repeating devices are NOT mandatory for a SINGLE device on the hub, they are an addition to when your network is being to crowded OR you desire further range than your hub will reach, however you can have the lock being the ONLY device on the hub (no mesh involved) and the hub will not pair, or if you brought the hub next to the lock and it did pair, afterwards it will not "consistently" communicate with the hub day after day a mere 20 feet away when zwave frequencies are designed to get anywhere from 60-100 feet away and do so consistently on all other platforms with it being the ONLY device on the hub.

Ring paired fine with my Schlage locks as well. The only time I have had issues pairing was on the HE hub and I've tried many just like everyone else.

Edit: I'm not complaining just stating my experience.

That's a bizarre assertion.

Come on guys, stop, please. This isn't meant to be some argument thread. I'm not blaming HE for anything. I'm not blaming Wink, or ST, etc. I might be blaming Schlage/Allegion. I'm trying to help gather some information.

And yes, Schlage/Allegion's current MO is relatively recent. Back when I first bought my locks, they were a much more responsive, helpful company than they are now. As support people will say, Support is expensive. Therefore being helpful is expensive. It's easier to just say "buy a new lock" or "lock is fine" then actually dig in and figure out what's up.

If I knew more about PC Controller, I would totally see if I could just dump variables out of the lock and compare with my less troublesome lock. =/

I don't know if this will help, but you had initially suggested a survey. So I created a poll using categories I could think off, and restricted to Schlage deadbolts (no lever locks). Feel free to modify it in any way you deem apt. But I do encourage you to collect data that is amenable to analysis.

Restrict your choices to the most troublesome of your Schlage deadbolts with HE

"Trouble-some" Schlage Deadbolt Model:

  • BE468
  • BE469
  • BE469ZP

0 voters

Firmware version on trouble-some model:

  • 6.8
  • 7.1
  • 7.2
  • 8.1

0 voters

Pairing proximity:

  • Lock close to HE (or vice versa)
  • Paired in place

0 voters

Lock's final distance from HE:

  • Less than 5 ft
  • 5 to 10 ft
  • 10 to 15 ft
  • 15 to 20 ft
  • More than 20 ft

0 voters

Number of walls between the lock and HE:

  • None
  • 1 wall
  • 2 walls
  • 3 walls

0 voters

Wall composition:

  • Brick
  • Concrete
  • Wood framed drywall
  • Metal framed drywall

0 voters

Operational (post-pairing) issues with HE:

  • HE control of the lock (open/close)
  • HE control of lock code addition/deletion
  • Lock reporting back to HE during manual operation
  • All of the above

0 voters

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I was going to take your survey but I never had problems with any platform other than HE. So I assume the questionnaire implies problems with HE.

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Edited!

Also, wanted to add - I'm hoping this helps @staze arrive at some common theme ..... there's only one Schlage BE469 that gives me issues and that'll be updated to a BE469ZP sometime this year.

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This is great, thank you aaiyar! Only other thing that would be good would be trying to figure out other devices that may cause issues. Bobby offhand mentioned external outlets (those original GE Zwave (non-plus) black box outlets) had caused issues with his (personal) mesh (back in ST days).

Just one other thought. I would put an option for 'Never go it paired'. I gave up and put them on a different system.

Too late to edit it now. Also, should've asked if it's C3, C-4 or C-5 HE.

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Why don't you build a survey to see what should be in the survey? :grinning:

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Yes … It is debatable

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I agree. We have the Debate Chamber in the lounge for this purpose.

FWIW, Vera had/has special instructions to pair Schlage locks that required proximity. A cursory search indicates older posts on HomeSeer's forums about Schlage issues (coinciding with the time-frame of FW6.8). @srwhite has documented Schlage FW-dependent issues with ST. And, I don't know where to begin with the claim about OpenHAB and HA ....

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