Rules not firing

Ok,
The lower the figure, the better.
I’m not sure if 80 is a bit high to get reliable operation (you will need to ask ‘support’ if this is ok)
Perhaps @bobbyD can advise

As a matter of interest, my cars, outside on my driveway are reporting no more than 63
(ST presence sensors)

But.. at least it tells you that now all the devices are reporting to the hub
But you also said that the normal logs show the correct sort of activity.
So, does it all seem to be working now?

If so then I would monitor it and check again if things start going ‘flakey’ again.

I’m sorry April, but it’s almost 2:30am here and I need to get up at 7:00am so time for bed for me

If you still have no joy then I would contact support (perhaps reference this thread so they can see what you have tried)
They have access to logs that we cannot see - these may shed some light on the problem

Andy

Oh my gosh, Andy! Get some sleep. Sorry to have kept you up. At the time of the post, it was flaky, but wasn't sure where to start. You've helped me immensely. Although next time, I won't be upset that you respond late. g'night. thanks for the help thus far. I will monitor it.

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Goodnight :slight_smile:
Andy

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I noticed a few of my rules in Rule Machine had stop firing as well and going into them and selecting done again made them fire again.
Then I also realized that those rules should have been created as triggers not rules.
Changed them to triggers and will see if that fixes it.

Went out for dinner.. when I came back home, the lights in this office didn't light. Looked at the Motion sensors, both said Active, looked at the Rule, Define Rule shows [TRUE] but no light. Clicked done and of course it worked.

Didi this yesterday too as I recall. But yesterday I had to restore a DB backup for the first time in my life, and so I was forgiving, yesterday.

did you have multiple conditions in the rule?
I noticed that you can get around using triggers by simply only having one condition in a rule.
wondering if having multiple conditions in a rule that should be created as a trigger is what is causing the issues.
or it could be simply be a bug in RM if you have multiple conditions in a rule.

The issue is with multiple conditions, is rule truth actually changing from true to false and back to true. This of course depends on the conditions and how the rule is set up. RM will only do an action upon a change in rule truth.

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Just an update: I'm not one to put blame right out there on something right away. All day today I gave this issue some thought. And after looking at signal strength and wifi issues, I realized that it's probably some interference with location. My wifi has been acting up. So, probably not coincidence. I had a chat with Patrick today as I had posted on facebook before coming here. I decided to move things over a few feet. I relocated my wifi puck to a lower shelf and moved my hubitat over to the adjoining wall away from the furnace and the electrical. Things are rockin' here now. Everything seems to be harmonious again. I am still going to run some hardwires to my office and move my wifi over here so that I can move the 3rd puck elsewhere, but everything seems good. I'll continue to monitor. Thanks @Cobra for helping me and losing sleep over it. I'll continue to monitor my situation.

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I never paid attention to the Zigbee logs. So is the number in parentheses by the device name is an average signal strength? What I learn from this is my Lightify bulbs don't have a very strong signal!

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@danfox52

Have a look at this post by BobbyD

How to read zigbee log

Andy

April,
I’m really glad you got it sorted :slight_smile:

Andy

It's not quite sorted. It has to do with my inovelli switch. I'm working with their tech support to get it resolved. I'll update more if this fixes it.

@april.brandt

If you don't mind my asking, This thread seems to be about Zigbee issues and the Inovelly switches are Z-Wave (at least mine are). Sorry if my wording sounds argumentative that is not how I mean it.

I have a few and for me they've been solid performers.

John

It maybe that Rule Machine is corrupt.
Mine is still having issues. Working with support to hopefully correct it without losing all my rules.

Actually, it was affecting both zwave and zigbee. I excluded my inovelli switch to test and everything went back to normal. I have one of the original switches. Purchased in 2017 with a different firmware. They have determined that the secure join is the issue, which was removed/changed in the newer firmware switches. That is probably why your switches are solid. And this switch was solid in my setup too. However; is was bogging down my network. To remedy, I've ordered a zstick (which I've wanted for a while anyway) and I will work with Inovelli support to update the firmware of my switch once that is received. Just to be clear, Inovelli offered to swap switches with me, but as I had an electrician do my work, I'd rather take this route as opposed to get someone out here to swap it for me. I leave the electrical up to the professionals. I plan on posting the results after the firmware is updated. If this solves the issue, I will mark it resolved.

@april.brandt

Was just curious. Thank you for the response. I'll also be interested in the results of your upgrade. (well.... your switches that is).

I have an older S2 Z-Stick, I'll have to check if it will be adequate in the event Inovelli has a worthwhile firmware for my switches. I'm now a V1.07

Goodluck

John

I've been having issues with rules not firing. I'm fairly new to the Hubitat platform so at first I thought that it was just me but after a week or two of reading and watching videos (and thanks to Hubitat staff and community for answering my questions) I've gotten the rules to work the way I want but for some reason they seem to randomly stop working. Sometimes for 10 or 15 minutes, other times for a day or more. For instance last night two of my rules stopped working. The rule for turning on the hallway lights at night with motion stopped working and the rule for turning on the basement lights with motion stopped working. But to my surprise the next day I woke up, walked into the hallway, and the rule fired turning on the hallway lights. Unfortunately, the rule for turning on the basement lights still didn't work this morning. I've ruled out any issues with zigbee or zwave. I have good RSII values and the state of the switches and motion sensors are correct and are being reported to the hub. I've double checked the logs and device status when the rules don't fire and don't see any reason why they shouldn't work. I'm beginning to think there could be a bug or some other issue with the platform, maybe?

Below last night when the upstairs motion was detected but the rule never fired.


This is from this morning when the basement lights didn't turn on with motion.

You need to look at the App Events, from the app status page (gear icon). Also, be sure you have logging turned on for Motion Lighting. Between those two you should be able to see what's going on.

Sometimes this is caused by a device that isn't reporting properly. That can be caused my mesh network issues, that show up in this app. For example, the app may think the device is on already.

Hi Bruce, on behalf of everyone I would like to thank you for taking the time to respond to all our questions. Its much appreciated! I've suspected that my issue could be a reporting problem so I always check the state of the switches and motion sensors before and after the trigger event (to be sure that everything is reporting properly). About an hour ago I went upstairs and the ML rule to turn on the upstairs hallway lights with motion didn't work. Note that it has been working. This morning it worked several times, and earlier tonight it was triggered and worked, but at 9:49pm it stopped working. The motion sensor will report active/inactive every five to ten seconds.

image

Anyway, I've noticed a pattern when rules stop working. It always happens when I'm logged into the hub and I'm setting up new rules or changing/editing an existing rule. Call me crazy but this seems to happen every time.

Tonight I added a new RM rule below. It was after that when the ML rule for the upstairs hallway lights stopped working. It might be coincidence but I've seen this odd behavior many times before.

Any thoughts on this? Have you ever seen this behavior before?

I think this is coincidence, and haven't see this before.

This isn't telling us anything we didn't already know.

But, the log shows that ML thinks the light is already on, so that could explain why it doesn't turn it on.

Many months ago there was a clamor from some users about ML sending On commands when a light was already on, and they didn't like that due to the redundant nature of those commands. In response to that, ML was changed to not do that. I think an unfortunate outcome is what you are experiencing. There are arguments to be made on both sides of this particular item. Personally, based on my own experience (20+ ML rules for over 2 years, rarely any failure), I thought sending the redundant On commands was just fine. I have a large Z-Wave mesh, but the reality is that only one or two of these rules are every active at the same time, and with a motion sensor going off every 10 seconds, this does not present a meaningful or troubling load on the mesh.

So, thinking about this, I'm thinking that I should make this optional behavior -- the sending of On commands for each motion active event. In a case such as yours, where perhaps the light being turned off but not reporting that correctly can prevent ML from turning the light on, because it thinks it is on already. In your case, I'd bet that changing this ML behavior would solve your problem. For those concerned more about banging on their mesh, which to repeat I think is a misplaced concern, they could opt for the current behavior of not sending an On command for each motion active, but only if the light is known to be off.

There are not perfect answers for all of these things. That's because these devices are not 100% reliable, and mesh networks are not 100% reliable. Events do get lost in the ether sometimes. Sometimes, thing just don't work perfectly.

Now notice that Rule Machine is more likely to function reliably for this than Motion Lighting. That's because it is dealing with these events at a more primitive level. Motion Lighting is layering in all of these options, such as not turning it on if it's already on, not turning it off if it was on before, adjusting levels and handling override circumstances. Those could be done with RM rules, but it would take more than one for each lighting setup. So that's another tradeoff that one has to decide how to make. What these details lead to is that home automation can become an ongoing endeavor seeking perfection that is always a bit elusive.

My advice: keep things as simple as possible. Don't try to do everything and cover every possible scenario. Introduce a few Picos into your system, or Alexa, and use some carefully chosen control for oddball situations. Meanwhile, we will all continue to try to improve how these apps and the Hubitat platform function.

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