Rule Machine issue w/ 703

Thanks. This is the first issue Iā€™ve had with an app. Appreciate your help.
I removed RM via the i, reinstalled and it works. But, when I restore any of my database backups, the problem reoccurs. Some rule in my database must be corrupt and the issue is only appearing under RM v2.4.0 in firmware 703. Anyway, restoring to 702 database wouldnā€™t have been acceptable for me, even if it did work, because when I do that, I donā€™t get the new Zone Motion Controllers app.

Looks like my only option is to rebuild my Rules :neutral_face:

Hope we can get Duplicate, Backup and Restore of individual rules in the future. That would help us find corruptions and eliminate them so we only have to rebuild a single rule.

Sent you a PM. We have another way to restore the previous firmware and that backup should restore to that version.

Do you have any idea what you were doing when this first popped up. Can you shed light on the specific steps that preceded the above screenshot? Did you have any Custom Commands installed previously?

I may be able to figure out a way for you NOT to have to rebuild all of your rules, but I need more info. Also, if you could show a screenshot of the App information page for Rule Machine (that the circle i brings up), that would be of help also.

Thanks Bruce. I don't have that many rules built at this point, so it's not a big deal for me, but if you want me to help you troubleshoot so if other encounter this and DO have a lot of rules, they might benefit, then I'm happy to help.

Yes. Saw the notice for update to 703 on the forum, so updated and then went right into RM to try out the new Fade Dimmer to Level over Time option and was halted right away by what you see above.

I'm new to RM and don't understand what you mean by "Custom Commands".

Here's the app info. Was chatting with @bobbyD about this. Something odd. Maybe something I did wrong when I was just beginning to play with RM. I don't understand why that bulb [Dining Room Light 1] is in use by the RM app. It is a light that is used in a few of my rules, but I don't understand why it's showing up there.

Thanks. I think your best bet is to remove RM completely. Upgrade to latest build. Start over with RM. I donā€™t know what happened, and I canā€™t reproduce your problem.

I donā€™t understand why that bulb [Dining Room Light 1] is in use by the RM app. It is a light that is used in a few of my rules, but I donā€™t understand why itā€™s showing up there.

Those three settings are from the custom commands menu. On my installation they are all the same as my last selection.

Could it be one rule causing issues? Possibly remove them one by one until the error goes away. Then restore again and remove the one problem rule? I guess if get to the point where they're all removed, it's some larger issue and better to start over anyways.

Unfortunately, itā€™s a larger corruption in my database. Tried the one by one removal method, but after testing each time I removed one, and once they were all gone, the issue remained until I removed and reinstalled RM.

Iā€™m almost done rebuilding them. I discovered two of the rules contained a device that I had renamed, but it was still specified for refresh. I tried removing those two rules, backing the profile w/o the two rules, reinstalled the RM app and then restored the backup with only my other rules, but it did not help.

Itā€™s for the best. I discovered the issue that I had missed and I think I have found a bug while rebuilding my water sensor rule.

Found an issue when I was building a water sensor rule. After defining the rule, i get blank fields when I try to go back in to edit. See the example that follows (first image is after the rule is defined. second image is when an attempt is made to edit the rule).

Lighting rules don't exhibit this issue. I'm only seeing it with the water sensor rule. I tried deleting and recreating the rule and it behaved the same way the second time as well.


16%20PM

When you have a Rule with only a single condition, Rule Machine skips actually filling in the rule, as it is a trivial rule. So the blank fields you see are normal. You could fill it in if you want, but it doesnā€™t matter.

I was having issues also after the update. I couldnā€™t even open the rules. It would open a blank page with a title of Rule Machine as above and that was it. Ended up having to remove RM and then reinstalled it, fixed all. Including the issues I was having where RM wasnā€™t controlling a couple of my devices with between time rules. Not sure if it was the update or if I had an issue before that and the update just shut it down.

Thereā€™s a bug. Stand by. We fixed it and will put out an update. Yet tonight.

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This bug has been fixed, and build 704 released. Please update to 704.

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704 fixed the previous issue. Tried removing RM and reinstalling my 703 backup before rebuilding rules and it fixed the issue. However, I previously somehow added a custom command to RM that I cannot remove because it does not show as available to remove, so I will be using my rebuilt rules instead with the clean install of RM. Sometimes itā€™s just better to start over!

Thanks @bobbyD, @bravenel and @patrick for your help with my issue.

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I'm not understanding that explanation. I would think that if I define a single condition, but then I return to add a second condition, I would want to see the first condition displayed as well. Please see example below where one of my lighting rules does show the single condition, and is not behaving the same as a water sensor rule.

Let me further explain:

If you have a rule with a single condition, there are only two possible "rules" that could apply: That single condition or NOT that single condition. RM assumes that you intend the single condition to be the rule. Here is what happens:

Notice that after hitting Done on choosing the condition, that RM automatically filled in the Define Rule setting to be that single condition. Now, if you click on Define Rule you get the normal page for setting up a rule, where nothing has yet been selected, like this:

At this point I could select NOT, or I could select the single condition, like this:

If I select Front Door active there and hit Done, guess what, the rule back on the main page will be exactly what was shown above in the first screen shot. So, RM has actually saved me that step for this simple one condition rule.

Now, suppose I choose two conditions. I get this:

Notice that the rule is not filled in for the Define Rule selection, unlike what happened with the single condition case. That's because there is no way for RM to know what logic to apply for the two conditions. It could 1 OR 2, or 1 AND 2, or NOT (1 OR 2), etc. When I click on Define Rule now, I will get the exact same screen shown above in the second screen shot,

At this point I will have to select the logic I want for the rule, by selecting the condition I want first, then AND or OR, then the next condition, etc.

Then, after selecting all of that, and hitting Done in the rule definition, I get this:

Now, my complex rule has been defined and shown on the main rule page under Define Rule.

I hope this clarifies for you what is going on.

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I understand now what I was not doing. Thanks for taking the time to explain!

Thanks for this explanantion @bravenel . I could never get my head wrapped around how conditions and defined rules worked but this helps quite a bit. If we have any RM veterans out there, a ā€œfor dummiesā€ wiki like we have for CoRe would go a long way and save Bruce a lot of time and effort.

Any volunteers? :smile:

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RM is a funny thing: The majority of rules actually only have a single condition. Then, the majority of what's left with multiple conditions have very simple rules, like A AND B, or A OR B. It is very rare that one needs parenthesized terms, or to use NOT.

I've had well over 100 rules at times, less now since I use apps like Motion Lighting and Button Controller. The most complex rule I've ever had is this one below. Four conditions, really two pairs of two conditions, and a rule that says that if either pair are both true then turn on some fans. There are a couple of companion rules that turn these fans back off again when things cool down. This one fires every day once it's hot here in Scottsdale, and never fires during the cooler months. The whole point of this rule is to turn on these exhaust fans only when it's cooler outside than in the garage -- otherwise, they would be sucking hotter air in to replace the air blown out, effectively heating the garage instead of cooling it.

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This leads me to possibly a better option than a wiki. I learned how to use Core by looking primarily at more complex pistons created by other users. Maybe a couple of Topic like we have in the ST forums would be helpful.

a Share your RM Pistons post (not sure what to call each RM automation)
a RM Peer Assistance post.

Iā€™m not sure we have the forum user base for these to take off yet but I guess it canā€™t hurt.

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