I have never learned to code anything in my life.
Rule machine can be clunky, but I had a hard time with webcore too.
And I don’t think that paying for a product or service gives one the right to be disrespectful.
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Well, that's your opinion, and that's ok. I'm more of the opinion that while people certainly have the "right" to be nasty or inconsiderate, they certainly shouldn't want to be or strive to be.
So, when someone takes an overtly disrespectful and non-constructive tone of someone else's hard work I have no issue calling them out on it.
If they really think that belittling and being an *** about someone's work is going to encourage them to enter into meaningful discourse to improve it... Well, they will likely be disappointed.
If they actually cared about giving feedback or discussing improvements, they wouldn't start the discussion with "[this] is a disaster".
Constructive feedback is always welcome. Non-constructive feedback is really just bitching and moaning, and not especially useful in the end.
Just my opinion.
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Guess I didn’t realize “click disaster” was such an offensive statement (I think it’s an accurate description. Buttons all over the place, confusing drop downs, weird labels. It is a click disaster!). Other than that all he did was reference two systems he thought were better designed (constructive feedback imo).
I guess years of working in software and customer service have given me thick skin! I once had someone tell me my software was so horrible that he looked forward to having a week long fit of explosive diarrhea because that would be more fun than using my software for another minute. I mailed him a bottle of pepto bismol with a note saying “hope this helps, when you feel better let’s chat about how to make the software better meet your needs.” He became a great customer of ours. What I’ve learned is, customers will be rude and they have a right to be upset. Instead of getting mad at customers for being upset, hear their concerns, and listen. Something every one of the hundreds of people who’ve worked for me have heard me say “90% of unhappy customers give you no feedback. They just leave and take their money elsewhere. The 10% that give you feedback WANT it to work out and WANT our product to be better. Regardless of how they convey their feedback, listen. The other 90% thought the same thing, they just never spoke up.”
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Fair enough. And I'm not the God of the Forum, so I'll let it rest. I'm not the developer in question so my opinion doesn't matter in the end. Whether I think the tone was out of line or not is irrelevant.
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I just want copy/paste. That would help building complex rules with custom actions that take many clicks to set up.
And longer term, yes a shiny new graphical interface like Stringify would be great.
In the meantime I'm using Node-RED which along with its graphical benefits also provides performance benefits and de-risks your IoT solution at least to some extent.
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I must say that having come from maybe 7 years of Vera, RM is pretty awesome. Vera has some valiant user-contributed rule systems (having no builtin functionality of that kind) but I've been finding RM easier to understand after a reasonable learning curve. I do certainly notice some of the UI clunkiness at times but I get that is down to the framework, and how it might not be a top priority to change.
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Having used four different home automation platforms over the past 15+ years, I've come to the conclusion that most programmers/code writers aren't going to produce a UI that is intuitive for those who don't spend a significant portion of their time writing code. It's not that the code writers are lazy, or that the typical user is stupid. IMO, it's just that their brains are working differently, and are focused on different things. That said, I think this gap is a big reason HA has never really "taken off" with the general public. It's just too hard for many people to figure out.
The overall UI of Hubitat is much better than many other systems, and that's a big reason I've migrated here from the ISY. But could some additional attention to things like RM improve things even more? Yep. Would I pay to have a better/easier RM? Yep.
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I haven’t a clue what in my post offended any religion?
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Help me. I view myself as a fairly observant Catholic. I am unable to find anything that @dman2306 wrote that is offensive.
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I've just re-read all of @dman2306's posts on the thread and can't see anything that refers to any religion at all. Either I've missed a very subtle inference it or you are seeing things that no one else can.
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My mistake, I was trying to respond to the original poster. My apologies to @dman2306
I will delete my posts and send @dman2306 a personal apology.
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Sorry to enter the discussion like this, but:
Is this the current behavior in RM4? Every time I've deleted a device I have problems with the rules that use it. It's true that there's a long time I don't do it. Have it changed recently?
Thanks!
You now have the ability to export and import rules. You can export a rule that was using a particular device, then remove the device, delete the rule and import it again. You will be prompted before import to select the devices for use in the rule. If the device doesn’t exist, a virtual device will substitute for it, so you can then change it after the intended device is available, then delete the temporary virtual device.
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Great!!!!
I didn't know that.
Thanks a lot!
When you try to delete a device, that used by RM rule, a popup shows the rules that use the device, and asks to confirm deletion.
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Wink UI is pretty easy to figure out but that didn't solved the HA issue with the general public.
There are multiple issues in HA for the average joe and UI is not the only one.
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Well, had no idea I was kicking off such a response. Didn’t mean to offend but wanted to add a strong perspective underlining similar threads to create awareness to change at hubitat dev team.
I have no idea how big the hubitat team is but to be able to compete with Samsung (and HA, openhab) and build such a vibrant is certainly a remarkable achievement.
In my opinion webcore / node red are awesome for advanced users. Stringify was awesome for the casual user.
Have a great weekend.
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Amen to that.
Agree on Webcore and Stringify. They are definitely easy to learn. node red and RM took me forever but I am just an average Joe.
I don't think HA, as we use that term here, will every take off with the general public. The problem as I see it is that figuring out what to automate and how to do it -- i.e., home automation, is not easy or obvious to most people. User interface has little to do with it.
Many people have seen the automation in my home, or my daughter's home not far away, and they love what they see, They would like to have those features in their home too. But there is no way most people are going to figure out the technical steps to cause that to come about. That's my assessment of HA for the general public, as we use that term here.
Perhaps there is an alternate meaning we could give to "HA". We've conceived of one at Hubitat, what we call an Elevated Home. For a small minority of people, including pretty much all current owners of Hubitat Elevation, the achievement of an Elevated Home happens through one's own efforts. For adoption by the general public, an Elevated Home will only come about by the technical efforts of someone other than the homeowner. We believe that in the fullness of time this will happen.
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