Room Lights, Toggle per Mode

okay, room lighting seems good. i have setup “scenes” based on mode. so a single activator will activate the “scene” based on mode. great, except, what if i wish to activate a specific scene outside of the current mode.
i.e the current mode is evening, but i wish to activate the “day” scene. can you add the ability to create an activator for each scene assigned to a mode?

i see the scene activator has a button. perhaps adding a button per mode to the activator?
i.e. button 1 is the default “toggle”
button 2 is day
button 3 is evening
button 4 is night
button 5 is away

There is a level of complexity inherent in this idea. But, I'll think about it. At this point, Room Lights itself has enough complexity that it argues against putting anything like this in its UI. Your suggestion about using the activator is interesting, but the absence of a reliable way to map button numbers to modes makes that not really a good way to go.

Perhaps an action in Rule Machine, where you select from a list of Room Lights apps, and after selecting one, are presented a list of modes or time periods to activate.

the way i see room lighting is a great method to consolidate scenes and groups. currently i have 4 scenes for every room. these are strictly mode based. but, i use a zen 32 that has the large button to activate the scene based on the current mode, but you can also select a specific scene (mode) from any of the 4 smaller buttons via a double click. the small buttons each activate a light or group. and if you hold any of the small buttons, it save the associated “mode” scene.
i figure if you can simply add a button to associate each mode scene to within the screen where you set each mode scene would make it very simple. and the ability to activate or even update scene via push, double click or hold of said button?

But also very limited in scope and applicability. Why only a button device? That's your use case, but as the saying goes, "your use case is not my use case". So I'd be reluctant to do something that specific, and also more that reluctant to introduce that into the Room Lights UI.

What I'm looking at could accomplish the exact same thing without the limitation of using only a button device. You could use a button device for sure, but could also use anything that you could trigger a rule with, or any logic that might be applied in a rule. RM already knows how to grab RL instances, as you can pause/resume RL from a rule. So, "Activate RL for Mode" action would not be that much of a stretch.

I was more referring to the activator device for the room. since you already have the activator device creation option, why not add additional buttons to the same activator device if the user so chooses. this idea really reduces the clutter of multiple activator devices. optionally, perhaps child activators all associated to the same room lighting activator?
i have tons of scenes and activators and even scene capture devices for each room (ultimately each room has 4 scenes, 4 scene activators and 4 scene capture devices). it becomes quite cluttered, and the room lighting seems to be an incomplete but promising solution to consolidate this.
obviously, you need not associate the activator to a button device, you can simply apply a rule that “presses” a scene activator button if you wish. not a big diversion from the original scene activators. i’m just proposing an option that allows users to consolidate room scenes and modes, and still be able to independently activate a “sub-scene” via a single activator device instead of multiple activator devices for the same room lighting child app.

so where is this action? i guess i’m having trouble understanding where to do this “Activate RL for Mode“

Because of the difficulty of associating a particular mode with a particular button, in terms of UI complexity, especially in the context of RL. And, the limiting nature of forcing a button as the only way to do what you want to do (activate for any particular mode or period, not the current one).

What I've come up with does exactly that, except you don't need an activator device to do it. Just the Rule or Button Rule to do it.

Rule Machine or Button Controller.

Okay, so i think i understand, but i’m not sure what action to select to “Activate RL for Mode“

i’m looking at my button actions and i can’t find this. am i missing some step here?

Ah, well, this hasn't been released yet... Just finishing it up now...

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Okay, then Bravo! That seems to be a better idea! I would much rather NOT have an activator device! Love it! I look forward to trying this out when you release it!

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perhaps “toggle” room lights instead or in addition to turn on/off room lights?
this would certainly allow the activator to no longer be needed.

One thing is that having a Rule activate a Room Lights, as I've done it with the implication that it is for some arbitrary mode/period, it just runs roughshod over Conditions to Limit Activation, Disabling, etc. I'm not 100% certain of this interpretation, and open to feedback.

I don't understand "toggle" in this context, or what it has to do with an activation device. Bear in mind that one use of Activation Device is so you can say, "Alexa, turn on kitchen". Or, "Alexa, set kitchen to 40".

If you are activating the room lighting “sub-scene” or “mode scene” then you would likely be doing so intentionally and are therefor wanting to override the conditions.
but, i suppose if you are simply activating the main room lighting scene (just as you would with an activator), then all conditions would still need to be met.

by toggle, i simply mean the same as if you toggled a normal scene. if it’s on, and you toggle it, then all lighting associated to the room lighting then turns off. i guess this can get complicated when considering the conditions allowed?

Yeah, that was what I was thinking.

Toggling gets complicated when things don't have only 2 mutually exclusive states. Sometimes to Activate means to turn some devices on and some off. That's one example. I'm not sure what it gets you in this context -- it would seem that you know exactly what you want to do (e.g., Activate for Day, even if it's night). And by putting this in the context of a rule, you can apply whatever logic you want to it.

If toggle meant Turn Off if Active, or Activate if Turned Off -- that could be done by examining the activator device state with the right Indicator setting chosen.

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I see here and potentially elsewhere there has been discussion around the status maintained in the on/off state of the activator device. I am keen to see any progress on aligning that to what is displayed on the app status.

If I could add to that, and only if there is some developer time being spent in that space, I feel like it would be useful to see the enabled/disabled status of the app also reflected in the activator device as an attribute. I'd be happy for it to be a "custom" attribute not linked any any capability, with the primary use (I expect) being in automation rules. But happy to see alternative ideas of how best to make this available...

okay, so toggling is dependent upon the activator since it stores the state and not the room lighting instance? if that’s the case then simply toggling, turning off and on via the activator makes more sense. so then that just leaves us the need for the option of being able to set the “sub scene” directly regardless of mode.

I need to see very specific documented (with logs) instances in which there is a discrepancy with this. It depends very much on how Indicator option is set. Not interested in anything but results with latest release.

Thanks Bruce, I'll upgrade over the weekend and let you know how it goes.

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