The reason I can't use the first option called "false motion reduction" is that I don't put my motion sensors double in each area. I put one motion sensor per room generally.
So then I was hoping to use the solution called "triggered activation zone", using all of the motions sensors (1 per room) as triggers. I knew this may fail, because if the trigger device is ALSO in the list of motion sensors for the aggregate "zone" that the trigger device enables, then it will certainly be active the moment this zone is actively looking at the same device.
My ultimate goal is to prevent one sole motion sensor from being able to trigger the security built in app (dust/bug/ambient light), if no other motion sensors fire in the next N minutes.
So my feature request is to ignore the trigger device (maybe for just a short period?) when the trigger starts the "activation window". The issue is that I don't know which sensor is going to false, so I have to include them all as possible "triggers". But then of course they are also all part of the list of zone sensors also.
The additional information you posted about your sensor locations and how you want to utilize them was helpful. I am not sure that this app is quite right for what you want to do. I am not sure what would work better for your situation, I am not aware of an an app that would do this, but there might be one if you search the forums.
My next thought is it seems like you need to dig into things in Rule Machine a bit, maybe a variable and tracking/comparing that over time would solve this? Maybe a custom app of some type? Both of those are above my skill level, maybe someone else could help with that?
Understood. Thanks for the reply! I can check for or create a more complicated solution myself but didn't want to reinvent the wheel either. This also seems like!:
It could be a common use case for two builtin apps
It does also seem like small tweak to an existing app
Is there any way to fork the existing built in app myself?
One other comment. There are other examples I feel are similar. When you set up the built in home security app it has two different groups. Contacts that must be closed before being able to trigger "away" and contacts that ignore current state.
In my case I do not expect two sensors to be activated at the same time, but instead near each other in time. As mentioned above, the motion sensors are active for just a few seconds, just like in the timing diagrams in the zone motion controller page.
So this zone motion controller app is 98% of the way there. It just needs one added logical step. Give the option to ignore the trigger device at the start of the green "Zone Activated" period.
I had another thought on this issue... And I'm not suggesting this is a "nice" solution.....
Could you configure a Zone Motion Controller for each motion sensor using the "Motion Aggregation" option, allowing you to configure a timeout which may differ to the individual sensor device. Then you could configure a Zone Motion Controller that references each of the "motion sensors" created by the earlier zones, utilizing the false motion reduction option.
So, if you have 3 motion sensors in a room, setup 3 Zone Motion Controller Apps for each of the three sensors, setting the timeout in each to, let's say 5 minutes (whatever you choose), meaning that if any of the 3 sensors fire and then "cool-off" immdiately, the zone (virtual) sensor will remain active for 5 minutes.
If you then setup a fourth Zone Motion Controller App for the entire room, referencing each of the 3 zone (virtual) devices created as a result of the three apps created above, using the "False Motion Reduction" Zone Type, and a threshold of say 2, then within a 5 minute period at least 2 sensors will need to fire for this zone sensor to report as being active.... I think . I can't say I have tested it...
Just an idea, and not a perfect solution by any means... More accurate sensors would ultimately be a better solution.
I would have thought you could use the built-in Zone Motion Contoller app to create a motion zone w/a number of motion sensors, use the "False Motion Reduction" option, and then set a reasonable number for the "Minimum Active Threshold" setting.
The Zone Motion app relies on having multiple sensors in an area, and they each get a vote as to if there really is motion. The problem is the OP has only one sensor in a room. The OP wants to ignore events from that one sensor completely unless that sensor (if I am getting this correct) triggers multiple times in a row. In other words, the first trigger might be dust or an insect, but if it triggers again and again, that is probably a person rather than a random event.
I am going to spend OP's money here, but the best thing probably would be to buy sensors that don't falsely trigger, or to add additional sensors in that room and do the real false trigger reduction method.
All correct. One sensor per room prevents me from using the option specifically named for what I want to do. I.e reduce false motion alerts.
I guess I can buy new sensors. It's just annoying since this change seems like it would be a small change to ignore the initial trigger device for say 20 seconds.
I'm assuming a real intruder would go to more than one room
One key point which I feel has not been mentioned.
When a motion sensor detects motion, it becomes active.
It changes from active to not active, (assuming there has been no more motion), in X seconds, where X is motion sensor dependent. If the subject has gone from room a to room b in less than X seconds, then you won't get motion sensor in room a to be active for more than X seconds.
With some (very sophisticated) sensors, you can vary X is (e.g. the Aeotec Multisensor 6, with the right driver).
That is also what I was trying to achieve by having Zone Motion setups for each sensor, so you could control the X value, regardless of the physical sensor options. But that didn't solve the requirement for an initial sensor firing and their being a timeout where another sensor needed to fire, where the trigger sensor could be any one in the group.
I'm not worried about the "trigger" sensor being triggered again during this whole "Zone Activated" green time frame
As @sburke781 mentions, a key here is "the trigger sensor could be any one in the group"
programmatically, in the app it should be easy to know which device was the trigger device in the group and ignore it (either for the entire "Zone Activated" green timeframe, or for some number of seconds)
the key for a home intrusion detection using motion sensors in my opinion is seeing more than one trigger in say 5 minutes.
I think many people would like to avoid having 2 sensors per small area/room to save $$
@mike.maxwell is there someone from Hubitat here that can comment about adding this option to "ignore trigger device" can be added to the built in app? I'd be happy to be a Beta tester.
i guess i don't get it, isn't ignore trigger device effectively the same as not including the sensor in the zone in the first place?
I guess I'm not following the use case.
/on soapbox
Above is the root cause of your issues, IMHO, and should be reason enough to replace your existing sensors, or at least augment them w/additional sensors that are reliable. Especially if your key use is home security (which is not really a recommended use for HE, it is not a purpose-built Home Security system). But if you want to use HE that way, investing in sensors that are reliable should be your first step, not adding work-arounds to SW to try to fix HW problems.
/off soapbox
You can get reliable Third Reality sensors, really long battery life, well loved by users here, for $16. Cheap as chips...
. I can't say I have tested it...
