Reliability of "compatible" locks

If "done this" refers to using HubConnect, that approach wouldn't work. HubConnect only works for HE to HE and HE to ST integrations.

My locks were mostly ok on HE, but the occasional z-wave glitches compelled me to swap them out for Yale zigbee locks, which have been flawless.

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Per the above, I have the following two locks that gave me pain on both Wink and HE initially;

  1. BE469 CA (2018) - Firmware: MAIN_8.0
  2. BE469 ZP CEN 716 (2019) - Firmware: 0.10.9

And the following has gotten me into a state where they work perfectly;

  1. Work on your mesh health (in my case I installed two aeotech z-wave range extenders between my hub and door, which has also helped other devices)
  2. Let it settle for a week (or more than 2-3 days). I kept getting frustrated and tweaking things. It wasn't until I left it alone for a week that things were then 100% reliable.
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I fought with the Schlage BE469 series of locks for years. It is not just an issue on the HE system. I had 6 of them on Iris and they never functioned properly during the 5 year period that I was using Iris. Rules that had two locks in it would fail to operate about 70% of the time. Rules that had 3 or more locks, would fail to operate the locks 100% of the time. They also would exhibit all of the problems that folks are complaining about here. I think the faulty firmware explanation is valid. When I moved from the house where we had these locks installed, I left them. I started over with Kwikset Zigbee locks for the most part but I do have 2 Z-Wave Plus Kwikset locks that have functioned properly 100% of the time. I just wanted to dispel the rumor that only HE has a problem with these locks. You can also see complaints about them in the SmartThings forum. Some devices are just problematic.

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I used my three BE469 locks on Wink for over a year with no issues and have had nothing but issues with HE. I moved them over to SmartThings last night and they work flawlessly so far. Instantaneous lock/unlock and accurate lock status reporting. Not sure why HE can't reproduce with Wink and ST have done with these locks since so many people have reported issues.

To be fair here, both Wink and ST have had access to these devices for 6 or more years and have been able to work directly with Schlage. Many people have also reported great success with these locks as well. I have only had one for a short while and, at least in my situation, it has been flawless. Since it isn't everyone that has problems with HE and both Wink and ST users have also reported issues with Schlage, it may come down to the variances experienced in peoples homes.

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To be fair, there are lots of people with Wink who have issues with Schlage locks. While a particular combination of firmware and repeaters allowed your lock to work with Wink but not Hubitat, this isn't everyone's experience with Wink.

Very true. And yet, there are plenty of folks whose BE469 locks suffer from similar issues when used with Wink.

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I do think environment, firmware, etc. come into play but in my case I have had major troubles with HE and Schlage locks and zero with Wink (Hub 2) and SmartThings. My closest lock sits within a few feet of my HE hub yet it still has issues.

I'm sure there are users with experiences on both sides of the fence and unfortunately mine has been terrible with Schlage and HE. It looks like the Wink Reddit posts were 2-3 years old in most cases. It's unfortunate that we wouldn't be in a better situation than we were with smart hubs 3 years ago including making newer hubs backwards compatible for older hardware.

My locks aren't as old as these posts and have newer firmware on my BE469s so it's not an exact comparison but you would expect something that is/was listed as compatible to work and work well especially if it's for devices that are only 2-3 years old from original manufactured date.

BTW, Lowe's is clearancing the Kwikset Smartcode 914 & 916 zigbee locks for $76-112 depending on the store. I just bought the 914 for $82 a few days ago and it seems to be working perfectly. I did seal around the back of the part that faces outside with silicone after reading some of the reviews. I'm surprised it doesn't come with a gasket or something.

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What I suggest for any device problems. Go through a determination first if it's a device issue or not. Then add in variables like repeaters and once that's eliminated then there's the chance of it being a HE driver or HE hardware issue.

This requires some hardware and software

  • Problem device (you have it which is why you're here)
  • Spare USB Z-Wave stick
  • Laptop or computer you can move to the device and around
  • Silicon Labs PC Controller Software (free)
    Z-Wave Embedded SDK - Silicon Labs

Install the software and erase the USB z-wave stick. Then exclude the problem device and Include it into the PC Controller. This is as close to RAW z-wave testing as you're going to get without dropping into the SDK level. Verify that the device functions correctly as it should. If all the checkbox are ticked and everything works then great! It's not a device problem.

Now add repeaters and verify things still function and things play nice together. A bad repeater can cause all kinds of havoc and they're hard to pinpoint.

If everything is still working just great and all is good then do the exclude and add things back to HE. If then there's still a problem at the very least you have conclusive knowledge that the device is good, repeaters are good that it's not a device issue and the problem.

Now you can try to resolve the issue whether it be a HE driver issue or something far deeper into the HE hardware. It's unknown.

Realize HE is not a z-wave certified gateway so it does NOT have to work with all z-wave devices. Sad but that's life. So if you don't like this, then replace the device with a Zigbee device and move on. @stephack happy now?

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i think the point is that Schlage locks have issues on lots of platforms, not just HE. And while your locks may be newer, there are plenty of others (like myself) who moved to HE with Schlage locks with questionable firmware (eg. FW 6.8).

My Schlage was very problematic with Wink - at the time I ascribed those issues to the general instability of that platform. It was less problematic with HE, but I still preferred to replace it with another lock.

5 out of 11 are from 1 year or less. Posts that are 2-4 years old lumped together comprise the other 6. Draw your own conclusions on Wink having fixed issues with Schlage locks ......

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:laughing: Lock Logic sir. Can't fight it.

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According to the Vera forum the last time a user reported issue with the actual basic functioning of the Schlage lock (non Zwave Plus version) on their platform is a year ago.

Sure I can... may not win. I don't even have any locks that I use... so why am I even involved???? :slight_smile: I didn't start a discussion about locks but it sure turned into one. damn.

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You are leaving out that both Wink and Vera did particular Schlange only fixes to the z-waze implementations and drivers.

HE hasn't done that yet, and one would argue if they even should v.s. newer model Schlange, or totally different brands that are less of a hassle.

I say this as someone who has struggled with Schlage on both Wink and HE (Wink up until they made fixes for the old model, but don't support the new one) and have gotten HE into a super reliable state finally after a lot of work.

I love the locks, but I'd prefer HE focused on other areas and newer Schlage locks if I were them.

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Is anybody actually certain that all these other platforms actually did do Schlage only fixes? Have we seen something anywhere where one of the Dev's from ST, Wink, Vera or anywhere else has come out and said it, or are we just assuming they did something custom?

If the other platforms have gone public to say they had to do this, it should be as simple as asking "Hey, what did you guys have to do?" or approaching Schlage and saying "What did you tell all these other guys to change so we can do it as well to support our users". If it's been done on so many other platforms, the road map to fix it should be readily available.

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I agree 100%!! I too am curious if HE has taken this approach to see if they can replicate with ST or Wink has done by reaching out to Schlage or communicate with one of the other developers to find out what was done. If the others can do it, why can't Hubitat or anyone else?!

You mean you have 5 Schlage locks operating just fine on SmartThings without a single repeater involved with them?

Odd, I keep hearing "a proper mesh" is needed

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Wink tech support (which was good at the time) indicated that their issues with Schlage locks were fixed in January/February of 2015. That's about 5 years ago.

A cursory search reveals lots of Wink users with Schlage lock issues.

5/11 posts to r/winkhub (on Reddit) complaining about Schlage lock issues date to less than 1 year. The others range from 2-4 years.

Of the 10 FB posts linked to above, 2 are within the last year (2019), 3 are from 2018, 3 are from 2017 and 1 from 2016. All of which date to after Wink fixing their Schlage lock issues.

So, while I do believe that the Schlage/Wink changes dramatically improved Schlage lock behavior under Wink, issues similar to those encountered under HE clearly persist.

I'm not leaving out that Hubitat has not did particular Schlage only fixes, that is obvious and not needed to be stated.