A terminal is any place you can terminate a wire. That's why they are called terminals. In the industrial space there are many types of terminals that don't have screws. And yes, they are all still called terminals.
Look a little closer, tighten the screw while looking. It functions in the EXACT same way as the GE switches do. And I can see the circuit board in my GE switches as well. I'm looking at one right now.
And while you're looking, check out the installation instructions on the GE switches. They use "Screw terminal" and "terminal". They also don't specify "Push-In Terminal". In fact, in some places they just refer to them as "holes" which should be obvious to anybody what that is, it doesn't specify the holes are terminals in every section of the documentation.
Ah... interesting. So a bit of context for me. I've never found online diagrams viewable on the phone so I grabbed my Macbook. That display option is very hard to expand on a Macbook, which has a more square screen. The diagram is already full switch width -- you have to zoom the browser window to expand it.
On a computer the PDF version is much more readable.
That would help, although "Screw Terminal" is generally redundant except in contrast. You could leave it "Screw" and "Push-in Terminal" and it would be clear. Either way works.
Also, just add this to the FAQ. If someone is looking for confirmation because they're super cautious, just having it in the FAQ will help.
A terminal is the point at which a conductor from a component, device or network comes to an end. Terminal may also refer to an electrical connector at this endpoint, acting as the reusable interface to a conductor and creating a point where external circuits can be connected.
Even 35 years ago or whatever when I was training in electronics or 65 years ago when my dad was training as an electrician in Chicago, a terminal was still not a screw, a terminal was a terminal and it could be anything used to end and or interface to an electrical circuit.
Wire strip length:
For attachment to screw terminals: Strip insulation 1” (25mm)
For attachment using the enclosure’s holes: Strip insulation 5/8” (16mm)
There are a dozen other such references, including specific instructions for using the holes.
I have no idea what you are trying to prove but you're doing nothing other than generating static. Please go away.
You are both absolutely right. When I tried to say "screws are terminals" I was referring to 99.9% of the switches that a typical electrician will install. And most people who come to wire a switch in your house don't spend much time in industrial applications.
But what you're not tracking is that I just wanted a clear statement that these holes were in fact, terminals. I assume so, they look an awful lot like the holes in the back of the Jasco switches, but I wanted a clear explicit statement because the consequences of being wrong could be life-changing in the worst case.
It's simple, I'm trying to help you understand that the GE switches suffer from the exact same thing as all these arguments you're making against Inovelli
Here's a few lines from the GE manual
5. There are up to five screw terminals on the switch; these are marked
10. Connect the white wire to the neutral terminal (use included jumper wire if needed)
Notice the different wording. Screw terminal and terminal. If they are referencing the screw terminal in #10, this would be inconsistency in their documentation which is exactly what you're here arguing that Inovelli is doing. Starting to see my point?
You also mention earlier that GE lives, breathes and eats electrical. And that is likely true. But GE doesn't make the GE switches. They're made by Jasco and GE just rebrands them. So really the argument should be Inovelli vs Jasco not GE.
Actually we could get very literal here. On the back of Inovelli switches where it says "Strip wires 5/8" for installation into terminal". You can't put a wire INTO a screw. But you can put a wire INTO a hole.
Actually, that was another thing that surprised me... how huge the documentation is. Just my opinion, but separate the Z-Wave and the switch wiring. Only homeowners who do their own electrical will use both. The vast majority of people I know who play with Zwave hire contractors for electrical, and I've never met an electrician doing home electrical at market rates who was into Z-Wave smart-home stuff. (no argument that there could be and should be a market but I've never met them)
I'd ever go further and suggest dropping the Z-Wave stuff entirely.
(A) The amount of the market who can make use of that is very small -- the people who use Z-Wave devices is much much greater than people willing to understand what a Z-Wave association is.
(B) that very small market can go online and won't think poorly of you for having to go online to get Z-Wave association docs.
IMHO cater the physical paper to the electrician who doesn't make enough money per hour to get into smart-home stuff.
Totally true, and most of them wrong It's actually somewhat scary just how badly miswired a house can be and nobody knows until you get a less tolerant device and it buzzes or flickers and only in debugging does a person realize their entire house shares neutral, there's ground wires to every plug but no actual connection to the ground, blah blah blah. I can't tell you how many times I've had friends have weird smart home issues... I pull out a plug and find 36V floating on neutral. AC is remarkably tolerant as long as you don't put modern electronics on it.
This is always the first thing I do when I get a new home, or help out a friend with a new home. It's take apart the switches and trace down the electrical and learn how brain-damaged the previous owner or their contractors were. (I and most of my friends tend to like old homes, new homes are usually quite consistent)
Thanks for the confirmation. I want to, prefer to use the back holes, thus my reason for wanting absolute confirmation
I have thrown electricians off my property. I've also had the local inspector check out something I did and say "This is better done than the last job, who's the new contractor?"
That being said, I get paid a lot more per hour than what I have to pay a good contractor to do electrical roughing, so I generally let them do it. I just swap the end nodes on my own. And I pull my own permits, and do the review with the inspector.
no no I totally know what Common is and what it does. I was just confused by what appeared to be an unanchored reference to finding the common screw. There's no text that speaks to finding it. It feels like it's supposed to refer to some part of the text, but I couldn't find a matching part.
Probably not worth fixing, but one simple change that might help. Right now the text is underneath your switch, and I think my left bottom to right top association wasn't there. Right-justifying that text will localize near a picture where identifying common is something to be done.
FYI, I also went back and put some Edited-to-Add notes highlighting what I'd learned here, so that if someone new came to the thread they'd see this up front. And removed some of my whining
I love my inovelli switches. The support from their team is great and the switches have so many features.
I haven’t had to contact support for much (I think I had one dead switch) but I’ve installed 30+ switches in my place and it was just the same as every other smart switch I’ve installed. Hook up the neutral, ground, line, and load. And in 3 way situations I had to do a bit extra but nothing out of the ordinary.
The two push in holes in the back are actually very helpful especially when you are working in a tight electrical box. It requires so much less space to use the push in to connect the switch instead of creating a new pigtail in the box.
In the end though. Use what works for you. If you are happy with GE then stick with it. I’ve had bad experiences with mine and pulled them. But others are happy with them.
There have been push in terminals in wiring devices for years. The terminal "holes" in the back of the Inovelli devices as well as a lot of current devices are NOT push in connections. The screws trap the wires pushed through the holes internally. You either wrap the wires around the screws and tighten, or you push the wires in the holes and tighten. Either way, you need to tighten the screws.