My first post, so I hope I do right by the community here as I'm trying to learn how to pick sensors.
I'm mainly looking at sensors from AliExpress; any concerns or recommendations?
Do all Zigbee sensors work with Hubitat? For example, on AliExpress, I'm looking at...
Ewelink ZigBee Door Window Sensor Contact Sensor Security Burglar Door Sensor Alarm Magnetic Door Sensor Works With Alexa Alice #1005007333970530
or
Tuya ZigBee Smart Door Window Sensor Door Open Closed Detectors Smart Home Security Protection Alarm System for Alexa Google #1005006215113198
I know sensor quality has quite a range but the price range is kinda crazy. Like the Philips Hue Outdoor Motion Sensor or the Philips Hue Secure Contact Sensor, they have great specs but they're crazy expensive. Any tips on bang-for-buck, longevity, etc...
I assume that "Tuya" and "SmartLife" are features I don't need to use when I see that on a sensor. My understanding is those are alternative platforms/ecosystems from Hubitat.
Thanks in advance!
Btw, the full list of sensors I'm trying to get: Contact Sensors, Motion Sensors, Sound Sensors, Vibration Sensors, Sirens, and Speakers
I have never used Alli Express, I typically order mine from Amazon due to the return policy and much quicker delivery. I can be impatient.
I use primarily the Sonoff motion sensors (which are Tuya), the Third Reality Contact contact sensors and vibration sensors, Third Reality buttons, Third Reality smart plugs, and I have a couple Aqara water leak sensors I use as the triggers on pressure mats for bed occupancy. Linptech MMWave sensor. For bulbs I use Sengled, Innr, and Third Reality depending on the application.
All those will connect directly to HE and I have had extremely good luck with my zigbee mesh and connectivity status. They all play well together. A lot of those have native drivers in HE now and if not there are community drivers that work great.
I do have other Aqara devices through their M2 hub and brought into HE via matter. Some people have complained that Aqara devices don't play well.
AliEx stuff is no doubt cheaper, but the price you pay can be in frustation...
"Tuya" is just an umbrella of tons of different chinese companies that sell the same/similar devices, but some have their own tweaks programmed in. Unfortunately, these differences are rarely documented, so trying to find a good driver for any given Tuya device can be maddening. <-- that's often the frustrating part.
I myself avoid Tuya / AliEx stuff for those reasons -- my sanity is well worth the extra money spent on trusted, reliable, and well-documented & well-supported brands.
But if you go the AliEx route, here are a few tips...
First, always double-check that your order is for a zigbee device -- there have been many posts over the years here about AliEx orders where a wifi device was ordered instead of zigbee -- the ordering pages on AliEx often do not make this as easy as it sounds.
Next, look for devices that are "Zigbee 3.0" (as opposed to plain Zigbee)... Tuya stuff has historically had lots of non-standard zigbee implementations that make devices either incompatible or wonky. A Tuya device claiming ZB 3.0 is definintely not a silver bullet against that possbility (because Tuya's gonna Tuya, after all), but it's often a good sign that compatibility will be easier.
Finally, once you find a AliEx product you're interested in, search its name/model # here in the community -- chances are good someone has posted helpful information (good or bad) about it already -- whatever that info is can help your buying decision.
This is absolute golden advice...you will find a bunch of "Tuya" devices on Ali that are supported on HE (via built-in or community drivers), but there are also a bunch that are not supported, and just as importantly, some that are supported but not recommended due to "spammy" behavior - they bombard the hub w/tons of needless status updates that can't be turned off and can eventually mess w/your hub's performance.
Less expensive sensors that are supported and liked by the community include Third Reality, Ikea, SonOff, etc.
Check these "Year In Review" topics for lots of favorite device recommendations from members of this forum:
And of course HE has their compatibility list (which will not included all the devices supported by community-developed drivers):
Correct. Though there is some support for bringing devices from Tuya and other hubs that support Matter into HE.
One community example:
And in a recent release HE now directly supports integrating Matter bridges & their devices:
@hydro311 Thanks for some pretty solid advice there!
@danabw woah, thank for that list link! Do you have any advice on finding model #s on AliEx products. I'm finding that difficult and the name didn't turn anything up. For ex " Tuya Zigbee Smart Socket US Plug 16A With Power Monitoring Timing Function Smart Life App WiFi Outlets Works With Alexa Google". What I have tried but doesn't work all the time, is looking at customer photos in their reviews and finding a number there. That has worked sometimes.
I don't spend time on Ali so can't help too much w/model numbers...if not in the details of the listing not sure (other than ordering it) how to get the model numbers.
You should look at @kkossev topics in this forum - he has developed a lot of drivers/apps for Tuya & related devices of many types.
I agree 100%. The first thing I done was started looking at what other people on here were using and what they said worked well with other devices and what didn't. Along with watching YouTube videos. What I found was sometimes you may pay a couple bucks more for the device but the headache of not having to rejoin or redo your network is priceless.
Sometimes the ones that "just work" may not be the best looking or smallest devices you just gotta get creative in placement.
I would be very cautious of ordering anything from AliExpress that runs off of line voltage (smart socket, US Plug, 16A). It won't be tested, UL listed, and very well may burn your house down.
You can find some of these same questionnaire products on Amazon too.
I agree. One thing I have noticed though is a lot of your major manufacturers are going away from UL doing their certifications and moving to ETL via UL standards or just ETL in general. This is happening with product in the big box home improvement stores as well. I am going through a complete remodel that I am doing myself and I was highly surprised at the number of electrical items on the shelf that is that way now. At the very least it is a good idea to get devices with the ETL certification.
Price is not always a good indicator of quality, but if you find something cheap, expect it to be cheaply made. For non-critical applications, it is not necessary to have super-reliable devices. For critical devices, however, you want dependability. For example, I have an actuator on my main water supply valve. It is designed to cut off the water flow if any of my water leak sensors detects a leak. If the water cut-off actuator fails when it is triggered, I could end up with hundreds or even thousands of dollars in repair costs. Thus, I ordered a Z-wave actuator rather than a less expensive Zigbee alternative.
If you live in the USA, I recommend using Lutron Caseta switches, Pico remotes the accompanying Lutron Pro (not the non-pro) bridge. The bridge integrates well with Hubitat using Telnet. That makes it fast to respond. The remotes make it easy to wire three-way, four-way, or even 5-way situations. I even added a remote in a location not served by wired 3-way switches. The switches and remotes continue to operate even if Hubitat and the Lutron Pro bridge are down. The devices are somewhat expensive, but they have always been reliable.
I get that the Lutron switches/dimmers can work when the hubs are down, as they are wired in. But how can the Pico remotes operate devices when the Lutron hub is down? I've never heard that before, and seems like it would be impossible for the Picos to control anything w/out the Lutron bridge, since they don't have any direct connections to the switches or dimmers.
Because the Pico does make a direct connection with the switch. A Lutron hub is not necessary for Picos and Switches/Dimmers to work. The hub only provides smart and out of home control.
It's Caseta's version of binding / direct-association.
It's a long & complicated remodeling story, but our dining area pendant light's Caseta dimmer is wired up down by my electrical panel. It's directly paired to a Pico dimmer up in our dining area such that my Caseta hub could be removed and the Pico still works great. But again, all of that has nothing to do with (and is not at all incorporated into) Hubitat.
I agree with @rwclements228, and I'm guessing our reasons are same or similar, but here are mine...
As he said, price (expensive) is not always a good indicator of quality, but cheap stuff is cheap for some reason (cheaper quality, lack of support, no reputable certifications, etc) -- if you can live with whatever that reason is, then rock on.
Often, the higher price is due to the company providing proper (UL or ETL) certification and/or easy-to-access, responsive, and helpful customer support and things like ongoing f/w updates -- for me, those things are always worth paying more for when comparing ABC device that is otherwise remarkably similar to the cheaper XYZ device.
Particularly for safety devices like valves, locks, garage door relays, etc -- there's no way I'm using some no-name chinese junk for that simply because it's cheaper.
And there's no way I'm putting uncertified mains-powered devices in my house -- I've lived through one house fire in my life (not related to cheap chinese junk ), and I'm not planning to see another.
Actually no rule of thumb says that Zigbee is more dependable than Z-wave, or vice versa. It really is a your mileage may vary depending upon your setup in your own home and the reliability of Z-Wave vs Zigbee you experience.
In my case for many years Zigbee was always 100% reliable and Z-Wave was problematic off and on. During that time my best choice if I wanted a very reliable device would have been Zigbee.
That has generally changed as of the C8, where Z-Wave is now perfect and I do experience problems off and on with Zigbee devices. So currently if I wanted a device where reliability was my utmost concern, I'd get a Z-Wave device.
TL:DR - YMMV
And as others have noted there may be potential quality issues with devices that are not directly related to whether they are Zigbee or Z-Wave. Zigbee devices can be a little more wild wild west in terms of how the Zigbee spec is implemented so I do tend to want to stick to larger manufacturers for Zigbee devices where any quirks or odd behaviors are going to be more likely to be already known / reported.
The Z-wave protocol is controlled by Silicon Labs. Thus, manufacturers are less likely to play fast and loose with specifications than Zigbee manufacturers. Aqara, for example, flaunted the Zigbee standards for many years, but now seems to be more compliant.
There are some excellent Zigbee providers.
Zigbee tends to be the domain of home automation enthusiasts whereas Z-wave is also used in commercial/industrial applications. Many Zigbee devices can be purchased for less than $20 on Amazon. It is difficult to find Z-wave devices for under $30 other than simple tilt switches.
@hydro311@danabw I agree with what each of you said completely. I also lived through a house fire and I hope I never have to experience that again.
With that being said that is why I will not use a main device ever that at the very least does not have an ETL certification which now is honestly becoming more popular than UL in many instances. Having some experience with UL personally through my employment I can understand why.
Also, I agree on paying more for a reputable companies product with good customer support and known reliability in their products. I will pay a little more for a brand I know and have had good experience with than the cheapest I can find on AE or Amazon either one. The crazy part is in most cases the cost isn't that much greater.
I was just kinda lost in the why Z-Wave would be a much better choice than zigbee. Like stated it is what best fits the use and case of each individual application. There are times depending on install environment and application where a less than Z-Wave priced zigbee devices will perform as adequate as the other. Now I am not saying go basement dollar shopping for a critical piece of equipment but based on application the "best" zigbee device would perform adequately.
Not saying this is the case so please don't take it that way but an individuals protection gate is only as strong as it's weakest link. If the fear is failure of a zigbee device there are many people that would pay the hundreds of dollars for the Z-Wave valve and then turn around and monitor it for action with a zigbee water sensor. The possible failure mode analysis says it was just moved from location A to location B.
That is why I asked about Z-Wave being better than zigbee because you would need that entire protection gate chain to be Z-Wave if that protocol was so critical.
), and I'm not planning to see another.
