New Smart Home Setup

I currently own absolutely nothing smart home related - no devices, hubs, smart speakers, etc. We are in the midst of a huge remodel and need to add some three-way switches in some areas that are next to impossible to access with standard wiring. We plan to use Lutron Caseta switches on the existing switches and add Pico remote switches in the areas that are difficult to wire. I understand that I will need a Smartbridge Pro for these to work. We also want to add undercabinet & glass cabinet lighting in the kitchen which I believe will be Osram LED Flex Strips. I want to control the undercabinet lighting with a motion sensor and the glass cabinet lighting set to come on in the evenings. We want to add the option for voice control through an Echo or Google Home as well. I am sure we will add more smart devices in the near future but this is where we are starting.

I need a hub to run everything. I am considering either Smartthings or Hubitat. Hubitat seems like a great option since it runs locally and will have a faster response time. My concern though is if it is user-friendly enough that a complete newb can figure it out, So what do you think? Is the Hubitat or Smartthings better suited for my situation?

I have both, but I'm going to recommend Hubitat. ST/Samsung is in the midst of a migration to a new SmartThings app and it looks like it's going take time for them to accomplish that. For both new users and the old-timers at ST, it's been a bit of a chaotic period to say the least. Samsung recommends new users to use the new app, but it's incomplete for now, so you need to install the classic ST app to get some things done ... yeah, confusion reigns in ST-land at the moment.

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Getting into home automation can be daunting. Luckily both Smartthings and Hubitat communities are especially helpful. My very biased opinion would be to join Hubitat. Having been a part of both communities, I can tell you that the one major benefit of joining this one would be the response time of the leadership and staff. While both systems have awesome community help, the HE staff and owners get directly involved and respond at an unbelievable speed.

Join us. You won't regret it. :star_struck:

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Having used both SmartThings originally and Hubitat now (plus trying a few things in between: Vera Plus, OpenHAB, and Home Assistant, to say nothing of looking at even more options like HomeSeer), I'd also recommend Hubitat. Unfortunately, I think it does assume some familiarity with a SmartThings-like platform or perhaps at least home automation in general, but documentation is getting better and there are plenty of people here willing to help if you want.

I remember being confused a bit by ST originally (there were at least a couple different ways to automate things--why would I use a routine/Hello Home action over a SmartApp, for example) but I picked up on Hubitat right away. That was likely due to my familiarity with the terms and how they "translated" from one platform to another (e.g, "Things" = "devices" and "SmartApps" = "apps," and the latter is something that a lot of similar platforms seem to lack except for the ability to built your own rules/apps manually, so I find that a nice feature of both ST and Hubitat: they're almost like templates you can just plug devices and other parameters into to create automations for common tasks, like turning lights on/off with motion).

If you're totally new to home automation, the other struggle might be finding compatible devices. Most Z-Wave (any kind) and ZigBee (technically ZigBee Home Automation 1.2) devices will work with Hubitat. Hubitat doesn't have sell any bundles of devices or "starter packs" with the hub themselves like ST and some others do, so it's up to you to find them. I'd be happy to give you suggestions for specific devices if you want (e.g., motion sensors, my favorite category :slight_smile: ). There's also a compatibility thread on this forum. Most things that work with ST can also work here, except for some LAN/cloud-only devices that have a proprietary ST integration (again why I'd steer towards ZigBee and Z-Wave and avoid most things like Wi-Fi smart plugs, for example).

But when we started on SmartThings, what did they assume we were familiar with? :wink:
No I thing this isn't a SmartThings vs Hubitat choice, but really a call to start and you intend to proceed. Do you want your data shared, sold and harvested (even in anonymity? The issue with so much date being collected under the guise of anonymity, is the pieces when assembled from multiple sources paint a very clear picture of us that no longer offers that anonymity.

Second, do you want to rely on a cloud and internet connection to automate you home. I know most of use don't and that's a huge part of why we are here.

To be clear, I was not defending SmartThings in any way. There's a reason I moved away. :slight_smile: What I did mean was just that I think ST tries to be a bit more beginner-friendly: they sell bundles of devices with (or without) the hub that were known to be natively compatible, and I think the app does a bit more "handholding" (e.g., when joining a device--sometimes it even tells you how). There's also a lot more documentation for both end users and developers. Those are just a few examples I can think of. I still think the ST UI is a mess (something Hubitat does better in my view), and it's still not necessarily easy (this category is full of struggles for new users: Z-Wave vs. ZigBee, etc.). I'm not sure how intuitive Hubitat is for completely new users; being already familiar with this product space, I'm not sure I can judge.

However, I do know that I think Hubitat has the right idea. If you find anything confusing as a new user, I'm sure they'd love to know to help eliminate that in the future. And in the meantime, there are tons of us here who are so passionate on the idea that it's a good way to go (I swear I'm not on their payroll) that we'd love to help if you run into problems. :slight_smile:

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You and I are on the same page. I'm not a ST defender, but I'm also not going to bash the platform for the missteps of the corporation. I have ST to thank for Hubitat after all :smile:

Documentation is growing and will catch up. When you look at where Hubitat has come in just 10 months, it's incredible and the improvements have been so much more focused than the competition.

That seems odd considering the remodel....I give these two suggestions now while things are torn apart. 1. Put things where you ever MIGHT want something in the future. I always say more lights is better than less. You can always turn them off. 2. make sure you run neutral wires to EVERY switch box you are putting in. This will allow you easily in the future to add devices should you wish to do so. And getting that wire there later...is not nearly as easy as it is now.

I think this is part of the electrical code in every state and province in the US and Canada now, isn't it?

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I wish it was in the UK

Andy

I wish it was in the 80's. I have 1 neutral in a light switch in my house...the one I had added when I renovated my bathroom. Blessing in disguise though, because it forced me to buy Lutron Casetas. :smiley:

Well you have a different situation with the structure of your power. We split 240 coming into the house. Do you split 480 or does it come in at 240 and stay that way?

I don't have neutrals everywhere, but I'm in an a house from 1926 and we still have 10% knob and tube wiring.

Oh man. You don't have aluminum wiring to deal with do you?

It comes in at 240 ish
I say ish because I have to regulate mine to 220 to stop the wild fluctuations
(Was causing my UPS’s & other electrical equipment problems)

My UPS are enterprise grade and log everything.
Despite this my elec supplier still argues that I don’t get 255v sometimes

Andy

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Thankfully not, but I had to replace my entire electrical panel because it was labelled sylviana . Every master electrician said it was really Cutler Hammer breakers with a sylviana label on the panel box only. The Insurance Company didn't want to hear it. Replace or no coverage. Had to pay a couple grand because of a label.

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:-1:

I'm sure it's not impossible to access the areas with standard wiring but it is extremely difficult when the remodel is on the first floor with a cement slab underneath. We can't go directly above or under. It makes for very difficult wiring. We are trying not to tear into any walls that we don't absolutely have to. The Lutron Caseta switches with Pico remotes solve this problem for us.

Since you brought up lighting, I have a question for you. We are adding 8 recessed lights in the kitchen. My husband bought LED can lights but they aren't smart lights. However, they will be controlled by a Lutron Caseta switch plus two Picos. There is no reason we would need to buy smart recessed lights, right? My understanding is that the switch itself will allow us to control the lights. Do I have this straight?

Correct. You don't need smart recessed lights. A Smart bulb needs power 24x7 and wall switches are just too tempting for people to hit. Then you've lost the ability to control them. Turn the switch back on, they have to initialize and often come up in the wrong state, so you have to go to your Dashboard and fix them up.

You CAN spend extra effort to make it work: Inside the switch box, you can wire Hot to Load and thereby power them always. Then the switch you put in that switch box is only sending status info to the Hub. The Hub then sees the switch changed, and tells one or more of the bulbs to turn on (or off.)

A smart switch does two things.. 1) it turns power on (or off) to the string of bulbs; 2) it tells the hub it did something.

I would love suggestions. I have been researching like mad the past couple of days. We have so much else going on with the remodel that we really need the home automation stuff to be as plug and play as possible. I think using the Sylvania Osram LED Flex Lights Strips for both our undercabinet and glass cabinet lighting will make installation a breeze. I'm open to other suggestions if you think there is a better option out there.

I'm planning for 3 Osram starter kits plus some expansion strips:

1st Kit) In-cabinet lighting for two glass cabinets joined with a 5 meter Kabenjee connector cable. I plan to schedule these lights to turn on automatically in the evenings.

2nd Kit) Undercabinet lighting for two banks of cabinets joined with a 5 meter Kabenjee connector cable. I would like to set these to come on with a motion sensor. I'm considering an Ecolink Z-Wave Plus or Zooz Z-Wave Plus. I'm completely open to suggestions as to which one is best or another option altogether.

3rd Kit) Undercabinet lighting for another bank of cabinets. These will be grouped with the other cabinets and controlled with the motion sensor.

I would like to add either an Echo or Google Home for voice controls. Will one work better for me than the other?

Eeeesh.. Echo or Google.. that's a "religious" discussion. :smiley:

You'll find one does what you like better than the other.. they both are cloud based and thus what they do could change hourly as each development team tries to one up the competition.