New Devices: Should I stop buying Zwave and Zigbee in favor of Matter?

Admittedly I do not yet own any Matter devices. I have no intention of further cluttering my wifi network, so plan to only buy Matter over Thread, and I don't yet have a Thread Border Router, but I can get an Apple TV to handle that (since I don't see a Hubitat TBR on the horizon...)

HOWEVER...
I'm buying some new (and costly) motorized blinds, and the options for motors are non-smart with remote, zigbee, Zwave (for some) and matter via thread. Presumably blinds will last MANY years, so my thought is to buy the motor with the newest technology (I'll also buy the dumb remote with it). Other than an extra $30/blind, is there any downside to selecting the matter over thread motor?

I've also got a need for a few more smart outlets, preferably with energy monitoring. The matter outlets are far less expensive than the zwave or zigbee. Any reason not to go with matter over thread on these?

What are the downsides of selecting a currently available Matter over Thread device?

The downside of Zwave is that the Zwave protocol keeps changing, but my understanding is that the Zwave mesh downgrades itself to the oldest protocol on the mesh. I have a few Zwave 500 devices, so my understanding is that even though my newest devices are Z-Wave 800, I'm not realizing the 800 benefit because everything runs at 500 speeds on my network. If I buy a Zwave blind today, my Zwave mesh will be stuck on the Zwave protocol of the blind until I change the blind...and blinds are much more permanent than plugs & bulbs.

The downside of Zigbee is ?? - I'm not sure...
I used to think there was a 32 device limit, but I think that is only end devices and can be increased exponentially by the number of repeaters?; I have 4 repeaters. I'm a bit concerned that a future Hubitat hub may make me select between Zigbee and Matter over Thread, but I guess I could continue to run a separate TBR such as Apple TV, which how I'll start.

IMO you should focus on the blinds themselves and their realistic usable life. These are gearmotors with plastic parts and a battery with a limited number of cycles. Ten years is optimistic for the mechanism whatever the radio. I'd ask whether the head separates from the tube, whether the radio is a separate module, and whether the battery is replaceable. If the head is swappable, the blind can be repaired and the protocol decision is probably reversible later. I would order and keep a spare motor unit for swapping in case of failure.

On some of your other points:

Z-Wave: mesh rate has been 100 kbps since the 500 series. 800 added Long Range, not speed. Nothing is being held back, to my knowledge.

Thread: same 2.4 GHz, same channels, same PHY as Zigbee, same interference risk with wifi. No coexistence benefit, and with an Apple TBR you don't pick the channel.

Wi-Fi clutter: Matter discovery is mDNS, so the TBR advertises Thread devices onto your LAN regardless. Thread's real win over (Matter over) Wifi is battery life, which doesn’t apply to a mains outlet.

Zigbee: 32 is the hub's direct-child limit, and repeaters extend it. No downside to Zigbee. The real risk is vendors drifting to Thread, which affects what you can buy next, not what's already installed.

Matter: driver/device specific support is not yet on par with the other but improving. With no Hubitat TBR your path runs through an Apple box you don't control.

I would for now use something other than Matter (over wifi) and Thread. While they are starting to get better, I think they are still behind Zigbee and Zwave.

The only advantage I really see at the current time is that you can more easily share Matter/Thread with other hubs. If you aren't sharing, why not just keep it all on the hub?

The tradeoff to me is typically you lose features or have to use some native app to get all the features of a device. They don't always send every available option to Hubitat, or other hubs either as far as I know. I don't think it is required per Matter spec.

Maybe give it a year to see how Matter/Thread improve.

I'm assuming you are talking about SmartWings shades. I purchased the Zigbee motor because I recall it was $90 more for the Matter motor and I was buying three shades. I console myself with the thought that SmartWings does sell the motor by itself (I've read) if I discover a couple years from now I made a mistake.

Keep in mind you probably need to have several mains-powered Matter over Thread devices to build a good network. Battery powered devices don't count.

I've gone whole hog into Matter over Thread but that was driven by having nearly $1000 in store credit at IKEA. With current firmware, their cheap Matter over Thread devices work just fine. I have no regrets. But I still have a house full of Z-Wave+ switches/dimmers, and many ZIgbee devices including an expensive switch on my well pump. But I'm phasing out all battery powered Zigbee devices.

Oh, if you already have an Apple TV (2022) you have an excellent option for TBR and additionally you can control devices from Apple Home as well. I wouldn't buy a new 2022 Apple TV until Apple's announcements in September.

I have a couple of Eightree devices that have power monitoring, the only drawback is that the manual on/off switch is on the side rendering the switch pointless if theyre next to each other on a power strip

Is it worth paying a premium, currently, for 5gHz matter devices?

You might need to elaborate. Are you talking Matter over wi-fi rather than Matter over Thread? It would make zero sense to pay for 5 gHz wi-fi devices unless your router doesn't give you a 2.4 option. For devices that don't transmit much data, 2.4 >> 5.

I currently have 27 Matter devices plus 9 Thread and 5 Homekit over thread devices. Everything was initially paired thru Apple then to HE. There was some issues with HE early on but with the latest updates they have all been solid. Some of those issues I think was due to my router, but that's a story for another time.

I have Apple TV 4K and 4 Ipod Mini's scattered about which seems to take care of the Thread stuff just fine.

Should also mention I have 15 Z-wave and 27 Zigbee.

OOPS forgot I also have 2 Homekit devices paired direct to HE.

OK, well that's Matter over wi-fi which I would consider only if not interested in having any battery powered Matter devices.

Their claims that 5GHz eliminates "lag" and gives you higher "bandwidth" leave me chuckling. So no, I'd not pay a penny more.

Well, I have a Sensero smoke/co detector on the way which is matter over thread. So, we'll see. :slight_smile:

Same...maybe the Linkind engineers are watching 8K TV through their light bulbs?! :wink:

Thanks all for taking the time to respond. Excellent info above. I'll go with a Zigbee motor.

@hubitrep

Great thought about the gears and asking whether the head separates from the tube - if I order 5 matching ones and one gives up the ghost in a few years, I'll have a problem. At least these are not rechargeable; they are constantly powered/plugged in. Even if they were rechargeable, I could build a replacement battery pack, but it would be a pain.

It's actually a relief to learn this! So are my 500 series devices causing any issues?

Great info. So if I understand correct, my current Zigbee runs on 2.4 GHz, so introducing TBR will have 3 systems running on that frequency, and if I get an Apple TV to be the TBR and it does not behave, I can't adjust the channel...so do you have another suggestion? I need a TBR for a Level Bolt.

So, per the comment above this, the TBR traffic is still on my 2.4GHz wifi frequency on my LAN, but I just don't see the clutter in the interface on my wifi router?

Thank you

Can you clarify what you mean by "through an Apple box you don't control" - do you just mean I don't control the 2.4GHz channel selection, or other?

Good points - thanks!

Just another data point for you, but I just switched all my blinds to matter over thread. I use Leviosa blinds thay were initially controlled by RF remotes. I was using a Bond hub. So I had no feedback from the blinds and could only set them at saved setpoints. I decided I would update. I already had a Alexa device that was a TBR so I figured I was all set. Turns out Matter over thread needs a good mesh as well, and one TBR would not cut it.

Luckily I had another Alexa device that was also a TBR down in my shop so I swapped it for one at the house so I had two which made things better. I have since ended up adding two more TBRs and two Eve matter smart plugs that are supposed to be repeaters. Things are pretty stable now.

FWIW, I have 18 SmartWings shades, 16 ZigBee, 2 Z-wave. Most for about three years. I had one ZigBee shade drop off and required repairing once. The two Z-wave are large outdoor patio pergola shades. I'd buy all of them again without reservation. For me both protocols just work and are not going away any time soon. They are controlled with Lutron Picos with the button controller app, automations and Alexa.

Are they? If it works it works. They shouldn't cause any issues. I'm no Z-Wave expert though.

More if you use Bluetooth or a microwave :wink: My main point was to outline the fact that Thread has the same exposure to Wifi interference as Zigbee.

I don't know if any TBRs offer a user-configurable channel. I use Apple TBRs and so far I haven't had to worry about this.

Correct.

Sounds like the clutter you're referring to is DHCP client leases. Note that unlike pre-Matter Wifi IoT devices, there is no benefit to having DHP reservations for Matter-over-Wifi devices - they use mDNS (and IPv6). So you wouldn't need to worry about that sort of "clutter" with Matter either way.

I mean that you are depending on a device that doesn't really offer a meaningful admin interface. It will update, reboot or otherwise do things that you won't be aware of or control. You can't easily troubleshoot or debug what's going on on the Thread side of things. None of that is necessarily a problem and in fact turns out to be a great feature when everything "just works".

No, not SmartWings. They don't meet the HAF aesthetic for color. I finally found a vendor on Amazon that sells fabric meeting the HAF in the width I need, with mains powered motor

Thanks for that info. I'll wait! Even if I don't get a new one the 2022's should be less expensive once there is a new model available...

/////just wondering how matter devices are going to clog up home routers/////

The exact scenario being described is already causing massive headaches for early adopters and is creating a slow-motion trainwreck for average consumers. [1]

The fundamental issue is that Matter shifts the smart home standard away from separate radio frequencies (like Zigbee or Z-Wave) and dumps everything directly onto local internet protocols (IPv6 and Wi-Fi). [1, 2]

The structural flaws in the Matter standard will inevitably trigger a delayed backlash from regular users as they purchase more devices. [1]


1. The Multicast "Broadcast Storm" (mDNS Flood)

Matter relies heavily on mDNS and DNS-SD (DNS Service Discovery) for devices to constantly prove they are online and available. [1]

  • The Backlash Trigger: Every Matter device constantly shouts its presence using multicast UDP packets across the 2.4GHz Wi-Fi band.
  • The Result: Cheap consumer routers from ISPs treat multicast traffic poorly. When a user reaches 40, 60, or 100 Matter devices, the sheer volume of discovery traffic creates a digital traffic jam. The router's processor spikes to 100%, and regular Wi-Fi devices (like laptops or iPhones) experience random lag, packet loss, and drops. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

2. The Invisible "IPv6 Required" Trap

Matter does not run on traditional IPv4; it is strictly an IPv6-only protocol. [1, 2, 3]

  • The Backlash Trigger: Most everyday users have no idea what IPv6 is. Many old or budget consumer routers handle IPv6 poorly, block local IPv6 routing by default, or have it disabled entirely. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
  • The Result: A user buys a Matter plug, scans the QR code, and it fails to connect. There is no helpful error message saying "Enable local IPv6 Link-Local routing on your router". The user just assumes the device is broken, leaves a 1-star review, and returns it to the store. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

3. "Digital Islands" (The Thread Border Router War)

For smaller, battery-powered devices, Matter uses a mesh radio protocol called Thread. Thread requires a "Border Router" (like an Apple TV, HomePod, Google Nest Hub, or Amazon Echo) to translate those radio signals into standard Wi-Fi/Ethernet data. [1, 2, 3, 4]

  • The Backlash Trigger: The big tech companies have struggled to share credentials cleanly. If a home has an Apple HomePod, an Amazon Echo, and an Eero mesh Wi-Fi system, they often fail to merge into one big, strong mesh network. Instead, they form competing digital islands. [1, 2, 3]
  • The Result: A smart light bulb on the edge of the house might attach to the "Google Thread Island" but be totally invisible to the "Apple Home Island". The user experiences staggering lag or random "Device Unresponsive" warnings because the background radio networks are fighting each other. [1, 2]

4. Zero Network Segmentation (The "No Guest Network" Rule)

Security experts always tell users to put untrusted IoT gadgets on an isolated Guest Wi-Fi Network. Matter completely breaks this rule. [1]

  • The Backlash Trigger: The Connectivity Standards Alliance (CSA) explicitly states that Matter devices belong on your primary Wi-Fi network. Because they rely on local mDNS to speak directly to your phone or smart speaker, putting them on a guest network isolates them and causes immediate setup failure. [1, 2, 3]
  • The Result: Average users are forced to put dozens of cheap, potentially vulnerable smart plugs from random manufacturers onto the exact same primary network as their personal banking computers and private NAS drives.

The Summary of the Delayed Backlash

The smart home industry promised Matter would make everything "just work". The backlash occurs because consumers blame the individual device, when the actual culprit is their consumer-grade ISP router choking on local IPv6 multicast traffic. [1, 2, 3]

Until ISP-provided routers are standardly equipped to handle high-volume local mDNS routing and unified Thread credentials out of the box, building a large Matter-based smart home will remain a frustratingly complex network engineering task.

Disclosure: the below is an AI-generated response to your AI-generated post.

Worth separating the real bits from the inflation here. IPv6 is genuinely required, but link-local and ULA are what's used on the LAN — you don't need working ISP IPv6. Discovery is multicast; operational traffic is unicast once resolved, so devices aren't continuously broadcasting. Thread credential sharing between ecosystems has improved considerably. And most of the above concerns Matter over Wi-Fi, which isn't what's being asked about.

@terminal3's point is the one I'd weigh: Thread needs several mains-powered routers to be stable, exactly like Zigbee.