I have not been able to reconcile the two to my satisfaction so this morning I put my question to Aeotec support. I'll post back here if they have a solution.
One big difference is that the Nano does not need a neutral so maybe I can use it as I'm not about to pull wire to "upgrade" the circuit. It is way too much trouble.
FWIW, while I'm not an electrician I have done a fair amount of wiring to my residences over the decades. Never before have I run into this method for a 3-way circuit.
That is not the proper interpretation (IMHO). Unfortunately for us "hobby" electricians (aka homeowners) the NEC ground wire terminology can be confusing. The referenced article defines the logic behind requiring a Neutral (or grounded neutral) wire to be installed in each electrical box. It does not mention the Safety ground (aka equipment ground).
It goes on to point out that motion detector devices by design runs a very small current through the equipment ground specifically they cite 1/2 a milli amp. They go to say that if 10 of these devices you will exceed the safety current of a GFI and cause it to trip. So by requiring a Neutral in every box, the safety ground does not have to carry the device operating current.
This is a long thread discussing the negative aspects of "borrowing" ground from another circuit.
HOWEVER there may be a possibility of using both the line and neutral to power your lights and not use the current power circuit at all. This would be legal.
We would have to determine the other end of the current light power circuit.
Bottom line is, you have been warned. Everyone can google to their heartās content until they find the answer they want to see, but that doesnāt make it any safer.
Codes arenāt there solely to make money for manufacturers and electricians (that is an undeniable side benefit of them), they are there to protect consumers and businesses. They are there because thousands of people have died as a result of dangerous wiring, that was not thought to be dangerous at the time. Electricity can kill, and can burn structures and people. Electricity is wonderful, but can be dangerous too.
My brother was an electrician. He was killed as a result of arc flash. He was badly burned and this later took his life from the infection that overwhelmed his body from the necessary blood transfusions. Please everyone, donāt take risks with electricity. Either do it the correct way, or donāt do it yourself at all. Hire a professional.
There are many people that are in need of work right now. Give it to them and please always be safe.
Technically I would agree but my guess is for low wattage lighting you would not be at risk of causing the 2nd circuit to be overloaded by adding a few LED lights.
I didn't go into it in the last post but; the reason for finding the "other end" is that it is against code to have line in for two different circuits in the same box. In this case one should find the other end, disconnect and cap it. It would be a good idea to add something at each end identifying them (not sure what that might be offhand perhaps some blue tape.
Iām really concerned by the amount of disinformation provided here, from supposedly āinformedā sources. Be very careful over mains voltage wiring it is potentially lethal and also creates fire risks and invalidates home insurance policies. Sometimes dangerous situations exist only when certain switches are in certain positions or when bulbs blow.
Do not steal neutrals or EVER use earth wiring for anything except itās intended purpose.
In the UK we increasingly have protection devices in the distribution boxes called RCDās or variants on individual circuits. The US call them something different. They may even be mandatory for some new installs nowadays and definitely for outdoor mains supplies.
With these if the current flowing out through the live circuit is not identical to that returning through the neutral then a fault exists and the circuit is automatically broken. Typically this happens when some current flows to earth either directly or via a person. āA shockā.
So if you āstealā a neutral from say your sockets circuit and a live from your lighting circuit then such an imbalance must happen. If you have no RCDās (no fault/shock protection) itās unnoticed but if you add, or are required to add them later they will constantly trip. These faults are very hard to locate later.
Also bear in mind circuits are fused at different currents and lighting circuits are wired using thinner gauge cables. If you āstoleā a neutral on a lighting circuit and a āliveā from a socket circuit potentially in a fault or overload condition say 30A could be drawn in the live and have to flow back out the neutral whose wire may only be rated at 5A or 10A. The neutral wiring would get hot.. fire risk, but the fuse would not blow until the neutral wire melted.
Likewise neutral return circuits arenāt fused so if you borrowed a neutral from a socket circuit it would be carrying more current than the fused live supplying that circuit.
The amount of power that a domestic install can deliver is incredibly large , potentially ~15KW UK - without blowing fuses, and in fault conditions this becomes heat - like an electric fire. Also the āpowerā required to kill a human in incredibly small - way less than any of your typical fuses would protect you against.
Treat mains wiring with respect. If it was ever put forward as a new concept now for supply to the public I doubt it would ever be passed as āacceptableā from a risk perceptive at the current voltage.
Interestingly in the UK we used to be able to do our own work on electrical wiring but they changed that early 2000ās to only āminorā additions. In 2006 they mandated new wiring cable colours inline with Europeās and removed old cabling stock. The new cables often have a manufacturing date on the sheathing. So inspectors know when work was done and a certificate is required to cover new work. Has been fairly effective I guess, albeit annoying to my own aspirations.
People get very confused because at the initial intake to the home the ground and neutral are bonded. So many people mistakenly think they are the same since they attach the same place.
Numerous videos are available on YouTube to explain why this isn't true.
Suffice it to say it's against code, it's not safe, and you can kill someone. Don't advise people to steal a neutral from another circuit and if you're not 100% sure about these types of things it's best you don't be opening up electrical work to do things that aren't 1000000% clearly kosher. Generally anytime you ask a question "can I do this..." in electrical work when it's not how you've seen it done by a professional, the answer is NO!
I believe people only consider the "normal" or 100% working case. The issue here is the danger that can arise when something else goes wrong or is wrong.
I'm not an electrician by trade, When I was younger I worked summers for an electrician learning the basics. Since then I've only done work on my house or for friends and relatives. Nothing major, only swapping out switches, receptacles, installing GFI's etc. With this small exposure to house wiring I've seen:
Line and neutral reversed.
Receptacles strung in series where one wire is intermittent causing seemingly weird results when a light is turned or off.
Generally not so good connections.
I've personally had a good quality electric fry pan short out internally and was saved from potential risk by a GFI
Also consider the equipment ground was first introduced in the 40's. It was recognized back then that non current carrying ground was needed for safety. So don't think you know more than all those folks that preceded us just because you cannot readily see "....but why not...."
I live in a townhouse community that was flooded (peak ~8ft, standing water ~4ft) after hurricane Katrina. All ~150 homes supposedly had their downstairs torn down to studs and downstairs electricals re-done. We had fly-by-night contractors and I know inspectors would sign off on work by some contractors (sight unseen). New Orleans has a problem with that - just look at the mess that led to the collapse of the Hard Rock hotel being built downtown.
But I digress - the quality of work done came down to how much the homeowner knew and either did themselves or pushed the contractor to do correctly. For example, in my unit, I used the occasion to run neutrals to every gang box, and replaced the water/humidity exposed breaker panel with a Square D QO panel. When these places were built - they all had Cutler-Hammer panels
I've done minor electrical jobs for several of my neighbors (add a new outlet, replace switches etc.). I've lost count of how many instances of line/neutral reversal I've seen. But the absolute worse (most startling experience) as the discovery that a fly-by-night contractor had replaced one of my neighbor's breaker panel with an old FPE panel that took Stab-Lok breakers. Bear in mind, this work was done in 2006, and FPE went out of business for issues with those panels at least a decade beforehand. And, off course, this passed inspection - sight unseen.
Hi, I understand your dilemma. Perhaps we can backup a bit. Can I ask what functionality are you trying to achieve? Forgetting what currently goes where.
