Need UPS for HE? What's the risk?

Seen several threads and discussions here about need for UPS with HE hub.

As F'd up as it is, this is nothing I ever thought about on ST - never had an issue with a power failure, and in older house I started with ST in, had them frequently.

What is risk to HE hub on power failure? Is it just corruption of data, which can be restored from backup, or is it possible to brick it?

Potential risk of database corruption, which could be fixed easily enough by restoring a backup.

Power loss wouldn’t brick the hub, but a surge certainly could.

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Thanks for fast response.

Surge suppressor and frequent backups, check.

Nothing mission critical that needs auto-recovery for me. Just got to deal with a little screeching...

My motivation for a Hubitat UPS is:

  1. If power goes off and Hub db is corrupted, wife cannot fix if I'm not home.
  2. If power goes off and Hub db is corrupted, a safety/convivence RM will not run if we come home and its dark. (Multiple lights go on when the garage door opens).

I have no proof of this but I suspect the issue with db corruption is exacerbated when the power blinks off - on - off -on etc.

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ST had built in battery backup, though, so different from HE.

I have mine on UPS to allow me to shut them down in the event of a power loss... Probably partly a peace of mind\OCD issue... :wink:. But I do like avoiding potential problems.

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On the v2 hub, yes, but the main reason for the difference--and extra caution I'd suggest with this on Hubitat--is almost certainly that nearly everything on ST is stored in the cloud (flaky as it may be, but at least you unplugging your hub won't affect that) whereas everything for Hubitat is stored on the hub, mostly in the on-hub database that is the main concern here.

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Thanks, good reasons.

Re #1, I try to keep everything to where old-school manual operations still work so she's not calling the electrician over to rip everything out while I'm gone, but it's good for her to be reminded once in awhile why she needs to keep me around, anyway. :rofl:

Re#2, happened today, but infrequent enough, and not a big enough deal for my convenience use cases to lose sleep over. I know for some, where part of security system, this would be a dealbreaker.

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Why no built in battery backup on HE, especially because no cloud link?

Feature suggestion for C-8 due by 7/4/23?

Not happening, C8 already designed.

And HE appears to not see enough ROI\raison d'etre in adding it to date.

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I think at one time database corruption was more common. I haven't really seen as many reports of this as of late.

I think the rationale of not having a built in backup is twofold. You have the potential for battery failures damaging the hub. The other thing it would do is add a lot of complexity and cost to an otherwise inexpensive hub. Sort of related, Hubitat would have to warranty and support the added battery hardware and software.

Would it be worth having a backup battery? Probably. But would I pay more just to have one, in case there may be database corruption? Probably not.

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Another consideration may be that many UPS's can support multiple devices being plugged in. So if you have your HE located alongside other devices that may also be affected in a power outage, then you may get additional benefit than just HE protection.

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It's the life insurance that keeps her around.. :rofl:

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I have my hub, modem and router all on:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SKX78PV

Just good piece of mind and no disruption if the power is out briefly. If longer I can power it all down.

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If you need something just for the hub, I use this:

Voltaic Systems V25 6,400mAh USB Always On Battery Backup Power Bank for iPhone, iPad, Samsung Galaxy, Android, and HTC Devices (Gray) https://a.co/d/d1lqS7o

Like everything else, its price went up 50% over the past 2 years...

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The only thing worse than a corrupt HE is a corrupt PlayStation! I have all critical electronic devices in my house on UPS - router, switches, APs, TVs, computers, hubs, gaming consoles, etc. They're cheap and plentiful and only have to give me about 30 seconds of power before the generator kicks in.

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I think I saw someone else with a photo that showed a basic power bank as a backup. I think any of those portable power banks that can be charged and supply power at the same time would work.

The always on talent cell backup seems to be working okay for me. I'd like to get something for my modem and router, that would last a while, but the power requirements are greater.

The thing is with an always on hub, you could get unintended results when power is restored. I had a garage door open on its own once because presence got confused because of no power to repeaters.

We had a power outage yesterday. We usually lose cable broadband along with power. It was interesting being still able to mess around with hubitat with backup power (generator) running.

Some GE/Jasco switches controlling outside lights came on as well. Maybe part of a greeting scene, but not sure. I have one GE/Jasco dimmer that comes on after power restoration as well, that's not part of any automation.

Weird things can happen.

I have a couple for phones, but they have a switchover period where no power is flowing, so you have to be careful on what you buy.

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I think by not including it, it keeps the hub more affordable less complex and there are a wide variety of external power solutions out there anyway.

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Good point, that's why they call the proper ones an Uninterruptable Power Supply.

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For my peace of mind and overall device protection, I have my HE Hub on an APC 1,000VA UPS. Although that's certainly overkill for just the HE Hub, it's also powering and protecting several nearby devices, including (4) outside POE cameras and DVR, a PC/monitor, an inside camera, and a 16-port managed LAN switch. I use a second APC UPS in my AV/LAN closet to provide protection and connectivity there too.

The two UPS's only need to power those devices for less than a minute until a 20kVA whole home backup generator kicks in.

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