My experience with HE

I don't think this is correct. My iPhone with cell radio off and WiFi on still gets and announces messages when screen is locked. Also non-cellular iPads or iPods get messages/calls when locked, plugged in or not. Low Power Mode also does not seem to have an affect.

As I said, there are certainly web complaints of WiFi dropping when locked. There is no official Apple documentation of expected WiFi performance when locked that I've found. I don't believe that WiFi 'off' is expected behavior. Otherwise there would be even more complaining and likely documentation.

I'd certainly try resetting the network settings. It does seem to be a magic tool for many network issues.

What you say is true because the Messages app and iMessage can send/receive over WiFi on iPhones and iPads. If a device's cellular option is turned off, calls and SMS texts over the cellular network will not work. Newer devices have the option to use WiFi calling, but how well that works depends upon the strength/signal quality of the wireless (not cellular) network. Lastly, if cellular is enabled and the device is sleeping, a connection to the cellular network is still maintained.

Yes, that is correct. I was responding to a statement that WiFi on iPhones turns off when in "sleep". They don't for me. Nor is there any official documentation that it does. Some people have issues of WiFi dropping. But I don't believe it's by design. If the issue is on the phone then resetting network settings is probably the most likely to clear things up. I saw some anecdotal reports that phones have exhibited different sleep behavior on different WiFi access points. That's a little harder and time consuming to try out.

If your phone is connected to a power source while locked or in "sleep" mode, your WiFi connection is maintained. It will disconnect if not connected to power. This has been discussed on Apple's own discussion boards and most agree this is by design. However, many people do not realize this occurs because the cellular option is usually always left on and does not disconnect while the phone is locked/sleeping.

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Not for me or any of my family's devices. All maintain WiFi connections while locked whether plugged in or not. True on devices with (disabled) and without cell radios.

Apple has not put forward any official documentation on expected behavior that I've been able to find. There's not even any mention of disabled WiFi in Low Power Mode documents. There are a few highly opinionated people on the Apple discussion boards who claim that WiFi gets turned off by design.

It doesn't make any sense for WiFi to be disconnected when locked and not plugged in. There are too many use cases that would totally get hosed if that were true. Some apps may require being plugged in to use WiFi (like iCloud backups), but that's at the app, not OS level.

I Know my Android phone disconnect wifi (to be honest it keep it in a sort of cold standby for eventual fast resume) and I know that is a default habit for Androids.
I believe that is usual for many phones.
It was discussed in a topic (I cannot recall it in this instant), about an HE app able to poll Apple cellulars to simulate a presence device.

EDIT: HTTP Presence sensor


Yes, you are correct, these devices still get notifications while asleep. However, these devices, while asleep, will save power for quite a bit of time by dropping/minimizing the WiFi connection. This is, as @roberto mentioned, a designed power saving feature. The iPhones and iPads will still wake up the WiFi connection periodically, check to see if there is anything to do or receive, and then go back into this power savings mode.

The iPhone HTTP Presence Sensor driver polls the device via a HTTP call to see if it is on the WiFi network about every 1 minute. While aspleep, iOS devices will stop responding for a decent chunk of time, and then resume responding for a while, then stop responding, etc... This is the phone trying to save battery life by minimizing its use of its WiFi radio. It also explains why the HTTP Presensce Sensor method is only part of a solution for presence detection.

If there is a magic set of iOS settings that would keep the phone's WiFi active the whole time (without trashing battery life), many of us would be very interested in know what those settings are.

UPDATE: Once home, I ran a quick PING test against my iPhone 11 and my iPad Pro (WiFi only) and both devices failed to respond to ping requests about 80% of the time when their screens were off (i.e. asleep.). Both devices start responding to ping requests for a short period of time, and then they stop for a while, start for a while, stop for a while. It is very consistent and appears to be deliberate.

Whilst I appreciate the discussion,
My router is up-to-date
All my useful devices have static IPs
location services is on
Background app & mobile data are active
My wifi aint the issue.

Now if y'all had this much information on how to get my geofence to be working we'd be laugh'n ~!


The past 2 days have been bliss on Locative (not to jinx myself)
Both phones, coming and going, not bouncing out of the fence and me not having to hide the step ladder from the mrs because of the siren~!


Here's an interesting one,
It seems either pushover @mike.maxwell had an error and crashed my hub

or possibly the harmony driver crashed it ? @ogiewon

Any thoughts on what might be the issue ?
I noticed some foul play this morning but didnt want to restart the hub on a hunch so left it, but then noticed the mrs hadnt left the house/no pushover message so checked and found it sitting there working, with events that hadnt been logged.

Restarted it and it came up that the zigbee stick had stopped working,

Restarted it again and it seems to be back up.

Any ideas either @bobbyD ?

Hmm, clicked my remotec zwave switch, then had to wait 20 something odd seconds for the light group to switch on.

dev:3562020-02-12 07:45:43.113 pm [info] four livingroom lights switch was turned on

dev:6802020-02-12 07:45:43.097 pm [info] Hue AL 1 was turned on

dev:6842020-02-12 07:45:42.909 pm [info] Hue AL 3 was turned on

dev:6852020-02-12 07:45:42.857 pm [info] Hue AL 4 was turned on

dev:6842020-02-12 07:45:39.778 pm [info] Hue AL 2 was turned on

dev:912020-02-12 07:45:27.036 pm [info] Remotec Switch button 2 was doubleTapped

Not sure where to go or what to do with this (system).
Im just getting tired of the inconsistency.
So, Locative has been bang on for months, but then all of a sudden its slow, it took 25mins to reg I had left the house.
Did a shut down restart the other day and then all my zwave - mains powered devices take forever to reg movement.
Pushover just stopped working one day. Came home, clicked save and it started working again.

I just want to build it to a point and then let it run, but I cant. Things get slow, things stop working. Tried with bobby but after awhile he stops answering or doesnt explain things fully then doesnt come back to me with an answer.

Ive had great times with the system, but if I dont change anything, I kinda expect nothing to change. But that doesnt seem to be the case. Pls note I have a very small system / house. I built my mesh up and dont mess with it. im on the right channels and have had a time where 6 weeks went by and not one issue, but lately it seems im pulled back to the system time and time again to work out why something has stopped or something else isnt working.
Its frustrating.

Sorry to hear about yoru continued problems.

I had the same for months. I got a second HE hub. I moved all risky devices/apps to the old hub. My older HE hub ran faster than my newer hub with all my rules. It didnt fix the problem. I bought a Xbee to trace/map my Zigbee network. It wasnt the problem.

I finally decided to move my automations to NodeRed, and use Hubitat for device control only. I'm not fully there, but 90% of my automations are now with NodeRed.

I experience faster rule running, very few DB errors, and better satisfaction. My experience has led me to believe that HE struggles with many rules. My backup size has reduced from 35MB to 19 MB.

My recomendation: look into Node Red. I also have a pretty cool dashboard too.


This @stevebott123 is what I am finding as well.

The second hub with these problematic Z-Wave devices I have, now leave my main hub to hum along. It is still necessary to reboot only the hub that has the problem children on it every day on a schedule, but I don't care that it does that. It's working well, and I saved the $300 it would cost to replace them.

I do not use NodeRed, but just splitting the devices I know are old and chatty has made all the difference.

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As much as I love and recommend Node-RED I have to say in my experience I agree with @SmartHomePrimer - Erratic devices will absolutely kill HE performance and that issue is often magnified the more rules/apps you have on the hub.

If you have a small house multiple hubs may seem like an unnecessary expense and pain so another thing you can do to simplify things is changing RM rules over to using the lighter weight Motion Lighting and Simple Lighting apps if possible. Also a stop-gap measure is to install a rebooter app - I've used Rootin Tootin Rebootin app with good success. While that is not really a solution it may help keep your sanity while the folks at HE figure things out.

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yeah see all my devices are z-wave plus (I have 5 z-wave devices - like I said, a small system)
also - the majority of my rules are basic, very basic.
J-church keeps pushing me to Node-Red, i'll probably have to have a look at it.

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I have a small system and lots of my ideas/rules are spread over motion lighting, simple lighting and RM rules.

This is sad, not because it works or is possible but that people find the need to do it :frowning:


That's a nice list... :grinning:
Here's my main hub after Node-RED.

Cautiously optimistic, all my hubs seemed to have settled down since the migration. Have been able to recreate all of my rules/apps as sequences and even improved on a few things. I like the visual design style but ymmv.

Augmenting HE with an external system is not a knock on HE at all - I would argue its a testament to the flexibility inherent in the product itself. Ease of setup, device management, Safety Monitoring, groups/scenes, Maker API, Motion Zones, custom app/drivers etc - all very nice. RM and it's lighter weight siblings are also very capable - I just prefer a different design system - was really into WebCoRE in my ST days.

I certainly did not feel I had to make the switch. I saw an interesting opensource platform that people were using and apparently integrated well with HE and decided to try it out. Once I understood how powerful NR could be for my personal setup the possibility of mitigating slowdown issues was just icing on the cake.

I am a very happy (multi) HE owner..

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Download the Hubitat app