Motion Sensor Switch to Disable Turning Off Question

Does the switch used to disable turning off in the ML app have to be different than the switch activated by the motion sensor? Can the ML app distinguish between a digital on and physical on?

I haven't been able to get this to work and it's the only switch in the area.

ML app? Can you elaborate? Can you post some screenshots of how you have rules created? That would be a big plus in helping you to solve this.

I'm not sure I follow. If you turn on a light, using that same light turning on to prevent it from turning off is the same as just not specifying that it should turn off later. Unless you are wanting to disable the off action if the light was turned on physically... In which case I would think you could use the light being on as a restriction to prevent the ML app from running in the first place...

Motion Lighting

I wanted to disable the off action if the light was turned on physically AFTER the motions turned it on. I've been trying to use the same switch that the motion sensors turned on, but I'm still left in the dark :).

So light is on by motion, and you toggle off and then back on? And want to use this as the override?

Good question. The two motions cover less than 20% of a basement area. 60% of the time motion activated lights with an auto off after no motion detected works fine.

The other 40% would require disabling the auto off because it would involve activities in areas the motions don’t cover.

I wanted to use the physical on of the switch already digitally activated by the motion sensors because it’s the only switch in the area.

Did you ever figure this out? I'm in a similar boat. I can get this to work using 4 separate RM rules, motion on, off, physical on and off, and setting up variables. However, if I use one rule and add the same switch as an override, the rule overrides itself: motion turns on and the rule is stopped (won't auto off, ever).

I'd like to be able to motion on/off with physically resetting the button (off then on) to pause the rule, with physical off starting it up again.

You can do this by adding a RM rule to use with the motion lighting app, but only if you are using a dimmer, and it accurately and consistently reports the dimmer level in HE.

In Motion lighting, set the light to turn on at a lower percentage when activated by the motion sensor. In the RM rule set the condition to be the dimmer level is > the level that you specified it to turn on to. The rule will be dimmer switch is > light level. The action for true is to turn on a virtual switch. That virtual switch is the one you specify to disable turning off in motion lighting. The action for false is to turn off the switch.

This way, you walk into the room, the motion sensor turns on the wall dimmer to two 70% for example, and you tap the wall dimmer up when increases the light above 70% and that will trigger the virtual switch to turn on, thus disabling the motion lighting. When you leave the room, lower the level below 70% or tap the lights off. They will turn on again to the example 70% on next motion detection and resume the normal operation.

If you have a light switch instead of a dimmer, this won't work. You best to put in a button, Pico.


Ok, I mean this is probably also solvable by differentiating between a digital action and a physical action. The override could be "physical on" vs. the digital on that the automation causes itself to trigger.

I have seen this "physical switch" option in some places, but for some reason it's not an option for override.

For now I will continue using the 4 RM rules + variable to accomplish this.

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It might be that the reporting is not always accurate though. No one has mentioned what switches these are, and @mike.maxwell would be able to tell you if this is even possible. I'm going to guess it could not be a guaranteed feature because it relies on how accurately the switch can report. That is inconsistent from one manufacturer to another, and among older models especially.

Understood. I have GE smart outlets, and Smart Light switches/dimmers. The logs do indicate physical vs digital actions. I forget which part of which app it was, but there were separate trigger actions for physical vs. digital.

did you ever figure this out? I have the same switches and would like to differentiate physical vs digital in my motion rules.


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Continuing the discussion from Motion Sensor Switch to Disable Turning Off Question:

This seems like it would be a default for the ML. Seems simple enough to tell it not to turn on, why isn't it simple to tell it not to turn off? especially since the non smart switches do this easily

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